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-   -   Lebron "Clutchness": Let's take a walk down the memory lane (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=278353)

ripthekik 10-10-2012 08:21 AM

Lebron "Clutchness": Let's take a walk down the memory lane
 
So it appears that Lebron fans are now calling him Clutch. Is it true? It seems people are quite forgetful sometimes.. let's take a look back in history:

Part 1: Passing up last shots. He has been doing this throughout his Cleveland days. I'm sure everyone remembers the news.. every time Lebron would pass up the final shot.. allowing his teammate to force up a bad shot.

Lebron James Passes Up Last Shot vs Utah Jazz (HD):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=997NpDUaDcM
Quote:

With the game on the line in Utah, James passed to Udonis Haslem for an open 17-foot jumper that missed, and Miami’s winning streak was halted at nine.

Since joining the Heat, James is just 1-for-9 in the last 24 seconds of the 4th quarter or overtime with a chance to tie or take the lead.

Lebron James Passes Up Key Shot at 2012 All Star Game (HD)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89XqDgD-M_E
Quote:

According to Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports, Kobe Bryant was yelling at LeBron to “Shoot the [expletive] ball!” in the final seconds, and Carmelo Anthony gave him a sorry look once the Miami Heat star chucked the ball away in fear.

Afterwards, LeBron said, "Yeah, [Kobe] was telling me to shoot it. I wish I could have that one back.”

After all, big-time NBA stars don't pass with the game on the line. There's no way Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird or Bill Russell give the ball up in that situation, especially with a chance to embarrass one of the top players in the league.

With Kobe guarding him, LeBron could have easily put him in his place by driving past him or faking him out for a jump shot. However, that's not what happened, as LeBron passed the ball, making himself look scared.
Udonis Haslem misses last shot in 4th Quarter vs Boston in Game 4 (2012 East Finals)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=j56m4-gf7_M


Part 2: Quiting

LeBron James 2010 ECS Game 5: 15/6/7 vs. Boston Celtics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdqy27KsqYk
Quote:

LeBron's Game 5 performance against Boston was perhaps the most talked-about playoff game of the season. The Cavs were blown out on their home floor, with James appearing aloof and disinterested at time, and having shot only 3-14 from the floor. But few if any observers called LeBron out for his performance in the other three Boston games Gilbert brings up.

Part 3: 2011 Finals

2011 NBA Finals Remix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kKxtSQa-4

LeBron James 8-point game in NBA Finals 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFe8K...eature=related
Quote:

But, Game 4 was a horse of a completely different color. James was a no-show across the board, despite his nine assists and seven rebounds in the contest. He scored just 8 points on just 3-of-11 shooting, but even the stats don't do James justice.

He seemed to be dazed and confused throughout, giving off the same sort of vibes he's had in other big games in his career (remember Game 5 against Boston last season? It's kind of like that).

The worst moments came in the fourth quarter, when James seemed to forget that he was allowed to shoot the basketball.

He turned the contest into a game of Hot Potato, looking to pass virtually every time he touched the ball, and seemed unwilling to take advantage of the fact that he was being guarded by DeShawn Stevenson, Jason Kidd and Jason Terry down the stretch.

Others:
LeBron James turns in the biggest choke job of the 2012 NBA season (vs LA Clippers)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_QpiZTRDys

Wade Hits Game Winner In OT After Lebron Chokes Again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRPPB_aWiy8
Lebron misses with 20 secs left, Wade comes up to get the ball, tells everyone including Lebron to GTFO of his way, and proceeded to hit the gamewinner.


There's tons more videos, news articles, but I'm sure this is enough for us to all remember who Lebron really is as a player.:cheers:

Feel free to add yours thoughts, or add more videos.

ripthekik 10-10-2012 08:24 AM

Re: Lebron "Clutchness": Let's take a walk down the memory lane
 
Here's a few of my favorite pictures:




Nash 10-10-2012 08:34 AM

Re: Lebron "Clutchness": Let's take a walk down the memory lane
 

BoutPractice 10-10-2012 08:53 AM

Re: Lebron "Clutchness": Let's take a walk down the memory lane
 
For every moment like that in his career you can come up with a great clutch moment or two.
That's what happens if you scrutinize every single moment of a man's career. Everyone has their ups and downs, even the best... if you're a stan, you'll focus on the former, and if you're a hater, you'll focus on the latter, that's all.

ripthekik 10-10-2012 09:00 AM

Re: Lebron "Clutchness": Let's take a walk down the memory lane
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BoutPractice
For every moment like that in his career you can come up with a great clutch moment or two.
That's what happens if you scrutinize every single moment of a man's career. Everyone has their ups and downs, even the best... if you're a stan, you'll focus on the former, and if you're a hater, you'll focus on the latter, that's all.

I am a fair man though. I will recognize his greatness as well.
His game 5 against Piston in the ECF, and this year's game 6 were definitely very defining, in the way he took over the entire game.

However- those games.. are different from clutch. He took over the entire game from the beginning. It was greatness in another form.. but not clutch.
I try to remember his great moments, and I can recall those 2 games, but I can't recall any defining moments of clutchness. Example defining clutch moments are like MJ's clutch shots in the playoffs, Kobe, Wade, Rose. Those guys you can remember. It's an x-factor they have..

Mr Exlax 10-10-2012 09:02 AM

Re: Lebron "Clutchness": Let's take a walk down the memory lane
 
Clutch is more than a last second shot though bro. Well to me it is. It's different for everybody I'm guessing.

the_future02 10-10-2012 09:06 AM

Re: Lebron "Clutchness": Let's take a walk down the memory lane
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ripthekik
I am a fair man though. I will recognize his greatness as well.
His game 5 against Piston in the ECF, and this year's game 6 were definitely very defining, in the way he took over the entire game.

However- those games.. are different from clutch. He took over the entire game from the beginning. It was greatness in another form.. but not clutch.
I try to remember his great moments, and I can recall those 2 games, but I can't recall any defining moments of clutchness. Example defining clutch moments are like MJ's clutch shots in the playoffs, Kobe, Wade, Rose. Those guys you can remember. It's an x-factor they have..



Clutchness is overated. Reggie Miller was absolutely clutch but he doesnt have any rings. Shaq on the other hand had to be taken out of close games at the end so he didnt have to shoot free throws but most of the time it didnt matter because he dominated the first 3 1/2 qtrs. Same as LeBron.

upside24 10-10-2012 09:08 AM

Re: Lebron "Clutchness": Let's take a walk down the memory lane
 
LeBron will often pass up a good last second shot for a great shot for a teammate in the waning seconds of a game. If it's the right basketball play then what is the big deal. Should he jack up a three over two defenders if Chalmers is sitting wide open for a corner three?

No one has ever made every last second clutch shot. Jordan didn't. Larry didn't. Kobe didn't. You make some, you miss some. LeBron making a few gamewinners doesn't make me think he's clutch anymore than the misses make me think he chokes.

I'm not worried about LeBron's "Clutchness." After all, the games statistically most clutch player is Melo and he didn't hoist the trophy last year. LeBron did.

Kblaze8855 10-10-2012 09:20 AM

Re: Lebron "Clutchness": Let's take a walk down the memory lane
 
Lebron has been taking over late in games and making big shots for like 6 years. When you are talking about poor decisions in an all star game in a season he won MVP, finals MVP, and inarguably led his team to a ring with nobody on his team close to matching him in the playoffs....it kinda shows the kind of person you are dealing with.

Lebron is a 3 time MVP, NBA champ, and right in the middle of his prime and with time all the negative will take an even greater backseat as it always does.

There is nothing left for him to do. Hes just left to repeat himself. But there is nothing more to ask of him by anyone to be taken serious. That is over. Hating wise its on to the next one.

ripthekik 10-10-2012 09:55 AM

Re: Lebron "Clutchness": Let's take a walk down the memory lane
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Lebron has been taking over late in games and making big shots for like 6 years. When you are talking about poor decisions in an all star game in a season he won MVP, finals MVP, and inarguably led his team to a ring with nobody on his team close to matching him in the playoffs....it kinda shows the kind of person you are dealing with.

Lebron is a 3 time MVP, NBA champ, and right in the middle of his prime and with time all the negative will take an even greater backseat as it always does.

There is nothing left for him to do. Hes just left to repeat himself. But there is nothing more to ask of him by anyone to be taken serious. That is over. Hating wise its on to the next one.

Kblaze, it's been very obvious that your stance is pro-Lebron for a long time now.
Taking over late in games and making big shots for last 6 years? Hell no. Last season maybe.
This year nobody matched him? Wade 42 points on 17/25 FG with 10 rebounds?
Why do Lebron fans underrate Wade and Bosh just to prop up Lebron? You talked about it as if he brought the Cavs to the championship. This is the Heat with Wade, top 2 SG and only 1 year removed from prime, Prime Bosh who led his own franchise for 7 seasons avging 20/10, and a top defensive player in Battier.

Clutchness may be overrated, but we're not discuss that. That could be another good discussion in another topic. Here? We're simply discussing whether we can conclude that Lebron is clutch or not.

Jax 10-10-2012 09:59 AM

Re: Lebron "Clutchness": Let's take a walk down the memory lane
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ripthekik
Kblaze, it's been very obvious that your stance is pro-Lebron for a long time now.
Taking over late in games and making big shots for last 6 years? Hell no. Last season maybe.
This year nobody matched him? Wade 42 points on 17/25 FG with 10 rebounds?
Why do Lebron fans underrate Wade and Bosh just to prop up Lebron? You talked about it as if he brought the Cavs to the championship. This is the Heat with Wade, top 2 SG and only 1 year removed from prime, Prime Bosh who led his own franchise for 7 seasons avging 20/10, and a top defensive player in Battier.

Clutchness may be overrated, but we're not discuss that. That could be another good discussion in another topic. Here? We're simply discussing whether we can conclude that Lebron is clutch or not.

And your stance is anti-Lebron:coleman: , you have a disease man. :biggums:
The butthurt blinds you.

plowking 10-10-2012 10:28 AM

Re: Lebron "Clutchness": Let's take a walk down the memory lane
 
So what is there left for Lebron to accomplish? He clearly isn't very good according to you.

Somehow hes managed to win a title, 3 MVP's, finals MVP, numerous all NBA and defensive selections... Weird.

ripthekik 10-10-2012 10:39 AM

Re: Lebron "Clutchness": Let's take a walk down the memory lane
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by plowking
So what is there left for Lebron to accomplish? He clearly isn't very good according to you.

Somehow hes managed to win a title, 3 MVP's, finals MVP, numerous all NBA and defensive selections... Weird.

I never said he wasn't very good. I've always said he's the number 1 player in the league now.

But on a personal level, what is there for him to accomplish? I would want to see him win a champion with just 1 other star, either Wade or Bosh. That way I can view him as a true champion, instead of someone who just stacked and took the easy shortcut.

Sure, you point toward other "Superteams" since 2000. Let's take a look:
Lakers 2004: Shaq, Kobe, Payton, Malone
Celtics 2008: Garnett, Ray, Pierce
Lakers 2012: Kobe, Dwight, Gasol, Nash

You see what these superteams had in common? If a team collected so many stars.. then usually it's because some of them are already old, and are playing different roles. Payton and Malone were old. All Celtics big 3 were in their 30's and had a small window of opportunity. Kobe and Nash are both nearing the end of their careers.

But this team Lebron in on? 3 guys on their primes? I would personally, very much like to see Lebron bring a team with only 1 other star to the championship. Otherwise, he's got the stats and everything, but he hasn't showed he's at THAT level. Top 10, championship level.

plowking 10-10-2012 10:57 AM

Re: Lebron "Clutchness": Let's take a walk down the memory lane
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ripthekik
I never said he wasn't very good. I've always said he's the number 1 player in the league now.

But on a personal level, what is there for him to accomplish? I would want to see him win a champion with just 1 other star, either Wade or Bosh. That way I can view him as a true champion, instead of someone who just stacked and took the easy shortcut.

Sure, you point toward other "Superteams" since 2000. Let's take a look:
Lakers 2004: Shaq, Kobe, Payton, Malone
Celtics 2008: Garnett, Ray, Pierce
Lakers 2012: Kobe, Dwight, Gasol, Nash

You see what these superteams had in common? If a team collected so many stars.. then usually it's because some of them are already old, and are playing different roles. Payton and Malone were old. All Celtics big 3 were in their 30's and had a small window of opportunity. Kobe and Nash are both nearing the end of their careers.

But this team Lebron in on? 3 guys on their primes? I would personally, very much like to see Lebron bring a team with only 1 other star to the championship. Otherwise, he's got the stats and everything, but he hasn't showed he's at THAT level. Top 10, championship level.


So you want him to shoo away teammates? So you can start the 'Lebron is a bad teammate' thread?
Different roles? Have you not watched the Heat? Have you noticed Bosh doesn't play inside as much as he used to? Or that Wade is much more post oriented? Lebron too, handling the ball much less.

Paul Pierce was pretty much the same age Wade was when they formed a super team, and he wasn't even the best player on his super team. So what you're saying is, they should abide by your arbitrary, made up age of when they are allowed to join together?

Clearly they took the shortcut. I mean look at that 2004 Lakers team. They strolled to a championship. Oh wait... People act as if having the most talent is a lock for a championship. Look how stacked a team like Barcelona and Real Madrid are in football, and they don't win or make the Champions League final every year.

arifgokcen 10-10-2012 10:59 AM

Re: Lebron "Clutchness": Let's take a walk down the memory lane
 
ripthekik dude you are right now the biggest troll around here.Congrats man for having so much time on trying to prove how bad lebron is.


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