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-   -   How Good Are Isiah's Draft Picks? (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27927)

ChanningShamgod 01-28-2007 09:46 PM

How Good Are Isiah's Draft Picks?
 
So, I was just thinking the other day. In the past two years, Isiah has drafted Trevor Ariza, Channing Frye, David Lee, Renaldo Balkman, and Mardy Collins. (Note: We got Robinson in a trade). He picked Channing Frye (this season 10.3 ppg, 5.5 rebs) over PFs Sean May (11.5 ppg, 6.7 rebs), Danny Granger (12.9 ppg, 4.8 rebs), and Andrew Bynum (8.1 ppg, 6.3 rebs, 2 blks). Not to mention PG Jarret Jack (12.4 ppg, 5.4 apg). Last year, he picked Renaldo Balkman (3.6 ppg, 3.5 rebs) over Paul Millsap (6.0 ppg, 4.4 rebs, 54% shooting). Last night, Paul Millsap scored 15 points and grabbed 17 rebounds. He also turned down shot-blocking PF/C Josh Boone and PG Marcus Williams, who is now the primary backup behind Jason Kidd. We keep saying Isiah knows how to draft talent, but honestly, he hasn't drafted a player who can be the man for this team offensively or defensively, Lee, Balkman, Robinson and (sometimes) Frye stand out because of how bad the rest of the team is. However, they haven't stood out enough to make him any good of a GM in my opinion.

MetsPackers 01-28-2007 10:07 PM

Re: How Good Are Isiah's Draft Picks?
 
Before you log off answer my question. Is your username Channing Shamgod, or Channings Hamgod. Is Frye part of some strange ham religon that I don't know about, where he must worship ham?

LouV 01-28-2007 10:10 PM

Re: How Good Are Isiah's Draft Picks?
 
Disagree with you here. Isiah has done a GREAT job in drafting. In every comparison you mention above, Isiah made the right choice. The only one that remains a gamble is not gambling on Bynum. Frye is not great, for sure, but seems to have been the best pick of a weak draft at that point. He's a head's up player, is 6'11" and hopefully will develop defensively over the next two years.

Forget about statistics; they're meaningless in basketball. Totally dependant on how many minutes the player plays and what team/situation they're on.

David Lee was a phenomenal pick.
Nate Robinson was a terrific pick.
Renaldo Balkman was a terrific pick for a late first round pick (would have been second round in the old days).
Trevor Ariza also a great pick, despite Larry Brown forcing Isiah to trade him.

Some of the idiots in the NY media and the fans who believe everything they read dogged Isiah for picking Balkman, and they all didn't have a clue what they were talking about. It's hard to find a player who sticks in the NBA when you're talking about pick numbers 20-30 in the draft. Balkman was exactly what Isiah wanted, and he's turned out well.

Mark "Dumbo" Berman of the NY Post went further in his articles this past summer, saying he had interviewed the other GM's picking after Isiah, and none of them were going to pick Balkman in the late first round before the Knicks second very late first round pick, and therefore, according to Dumbo, Isiah could've gotten Balkman AND Marcus Williams. Well isn't it nice to have 20-20 hindsight and have the liberty to talk to the other GM's after the fact (something Isiah couldn't have).

Some more points:

1. The Nets didn't pick right after the Knicks in last June's draft. The Celtics did. And the Celtics desperately needed a point guard, only having not/never-ready-for-prime-time Sebasitan Telfair. The Celtics picked a point guard AND IT WASN'T MARCUS WILLIAMS. Marcus Williams fell through the first round like Michel Lampe encased in concrete. And at this point, the Nets don't play Marcus Williams late because he's too short. He has a propensity to gain weight ala Pearl Washington; that's why he fell through the first round.

2. The Knicks had four point guards. Why would Isiah risk losing the guy he wanted -- Balkman -- to get a fifth point guard?

3. If rumour ever got out that Isiah was looking to tab Balkman, no doubt one of those 'other' GM's would've jumped on Balkman. Isiah has a rep for great talent evaluation; when he likes a player, other GM's all of a sudden become interested in that player. Isiah isn't just another schmuck -- he's one of the greatest point guards of all time. When he sees a guy who he'd want to play with, it means something. Means a hell of a lot more than anything Stu Laden thinks. Or me, or Mark "Dumbo" Berman.

I LOVE the things Isiah Thomas has done as GM. AND I USED TO HATE ISIAH before he became Knick GM.

Amigo 01-28-2007 10:11 PM

Re: How Good Are Isiah's Draft Picks?
 
I like his picks. They are at best above average though. The most prominent one being Lee. The KEY word being "like". Not love. Or even excited. Could have done worse.:confusedshrug:

ChanningShamgod 01-28-2007 10:38 PM

Re: How Good Are Isiah's Draft Picks?
 
well, i think the balkman pick was a little overrated, but it was still a solid pick. the suns were going to take him and when he got picked up they traded away their pick. i think the frye pick was a huge misstep, and we're starting to learn how big it was.

bigdaddybluesman 01-29-2007 03:21 AM

Re: How Good Are Isiah's Draft Picks?
 
I like his picks and those players will turn into solid pros and some allstars.

Although probably not with the Knicks the way Isiah is using them.

They will bolt as soon as they can. Especially Lee who would start on the majority of teams in the league and Frye who also would be used much better than the Knicks do.

Frye will be a 19-8 guy with a few blocks and assists, Lee will be a 18-12 guy with a few assists and lead the league in rebounds some day. But they will not be a Knick because Isiah is continuing to be stubborn and play contracts instead of players. He is retarding the growth of these players and I mean Frye, Lee and Balkman.

knickscity 01-29-2007 05:44 AM

Re: How Good Are Isiah's Draft Picks?
 
I think Frye will get traded. Really don't need him with Lee tearing it up. Lee is excellent off the bench and play's starter minutes(around30) Zeke drafting has been great

TheOakman 01-29-2007 08:07 AM

Re: How Good Are Isiah's Draft Picks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdaddybluesman
He is retarding the growth of these players and I mean Frye, Lee and Balkman.


Its funny that this was one of the main reasons that people wanted to get Brown out of here last year, because he was not developing the young players, and now Isiah is doing the same thing.

Isiah has done a nice job drafting. Basically his Lee selection is enough to make up for his other drafting picks. Frye has not shown me anything yet, but I cant blame Isiah for that because a lot of people/experts agreed with the pick when it happened.

Nate Robinson is a circus show, but in my opinion will never be much in this league other than a novelty act. I dont even think he could become as good as Earl Boykins. To early to tell on Balkman.

LouV 01-29-2007 09:05 PM

Re: How Good Are Isiah's Draft Picks?
 
Hold on. Maybe I'm watching some other team.

David Lee plays 35 minutes a night. Doesn't matter if he starts or comes in off the bench. He plays 35 minutes a night. ISIAH THOMAS IS NOT RETARDING HIS GROWTH.

Renaldo Balkman is playing exactly how many minutes he should be playing. About 18 minutes a night. He's a rookie. He makes mistakes. He plays well but he makes mistakes. He doesn't deserve more than 18 minutes a night yet.

Channing Frye also is getting about 18 minutes a night. He doesn't play defense, and his offense is inconsistent. He deserves about 18 minutes a night.

Larry Brown retarded growth last year. Isiah is doing exactly what he should do as a coach.

knickscity 01-29-2007 10:15 PM

Re: How Good Are Isiah's Draft Picks?
 
He's coach and GM. His drafting A-. I wasn't sold on Frye but the draft last year was weak.

As the coach he has done the best job anyone can do. This team can't gel because they are all ROLE PLAYERS. They can't do anything great. David Lee looks great and I give him credit for that. But it's because everyone on the floor is scared of contact is why Lee get's 25% of our rebounds. With the exception of Q. if you put Lee in the starting line-up. who from the bench will get the rebounds?

jjswifty 01-29-2007 10:19 PM

Re: How Good Are Isiah's Draft Picks?
 
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

Not this thread again. We know Isiah can draft. We know he can find great players. We know!! We Know!! We Know!!

The problem with Isiah is he cant run a team. I tought Layden was doing a bad job, but Isiah just took it to another level. :mad:

ChanningShamgod 01-29-2007 10:59 PM

Re: How Good Are Isiah's Draft Picks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LouV
Hold on. Maybe I'm watching some other team.

David Lee plays 35 minutes a night. Doesn't matter if he starts or comes in off the bench. He plays 35 minutes a night. ISIAH THOMAS IS NOT RETARDING HIS GROWTH.

Renaldo Balkman is playing exactly how many minutes he should be playing. About 18 minutes a night. He's a rookie. He makes mistakes. He plays well but he makes mistakes. He doesn't deserve more than 18 minutes a night yet.

Channing Frye also is getting about 18 minutes a night. He doesn't play defense, and his offense is inconsistent. He deserves about 18 minutes a night.

Larry Brown retarded growth last year. Isiah is doing exactly what he should do as a coach.



LouV = Isiah Thomas.

Either that or you're a GM or Coach of another team in this league, hoping the Knicks keep Isiah.

Honestly, we won't know the extent of Isiah's havoc until this year's draft, when the Bulls use our pick to get a high level draft pick.

TheOakman 01-30-2007 01:52 PM

Re: How Good Are Isiah's Draft Picks?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by knickscity
As the coach he has done the best job anyone can do. This team can't gel because they are all ROLE PLAYERS.


Question Who brought all these ROLE PLAYERS in. Answer: Isiah Thomas.

Secondly he is not a good coach. Even with Indiana he was an average coach. Not to mention I am sick of hearing him talk about how he wants to play like his Pistons team. The NBA has changed since then. They dont want that physical knock you down throw elbows type play anymore, not to mention it does not fit this team at all.

LouV 01-30-2007 09:51 PM

Re: How Good Are Isiah's Draft Picks?
 
No I'm not Isiah Thomas. I'm a fan who was there for draft day 2002 when Stu Laden traded the #7 pick AND MARCUS CAMBY for 29 year old Antonio McDyess.

Isiah is not a great coach, for sure. He's an ok coach. A very good GM, in my opinion.

These Knicks don't play defense to the level they need to play it to become a good team. To win consistently in the NBA, you need to be able to shut down the other team for a 6 to 8 minute period in the third or fourth quarter, to take control of the game. These Knicks can't do that. They can't shut other teams down.

lakerfreak 01-30-2007 10:29 PM

Re: How Good Are Isiah's Draft Picks?
 
There is no question at all that Isiah Thomas can draft above average talent to teams.

If there was a position called a drafter, I would hire Isiah.

his only problem (which is a big one) is making dumb decisions as a GM i.e. signing Jerome James the full midlevel for 5 years, hiring and firing coaches...etc

I won't get into the trades that happened last year because Larry Brown had the main influence in that area and it's killing New York financially.


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