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-   -   Zone or Man to Man D against fast, black, athletic youth? (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=279514)

Brick Rick 10-26-2012 09:04 PM

Zone or Man to Man D against fast, black, athletic youth?
 
if i got 4 slow, white boys on my team but with good fundamentals, should i instruct us to play zone to cramp the style of the fast, black kids? pretty sure you'd get rocked on iso playing man to man d against those guys with their handles, speed, strength and hops.

SourPatchKids 10-27-2012 01:10 AM

Re: Zone or Man to Man D against fast, black, athletic youth?
 
Depends, if they're just a bunch of run & gun players with less organization and fundamentals, I say press their asses. That is if you guys can keep up.

Also, what do you mean by athletic black youth? A point guard who is is small in stature but just physically overwhelms all his defenders? A long athletic wing who is either too big or too fast to guard 1 on 1? A guy who just towers over the rest of the players and basically once he catches the ball it's either foul or get dunked on? Perhaps all 3?

For the physically dominant pg you can box-and-one. For the other two either play really aggressive zone that double teams when ever someone catches; or play man and make sure your team has memorized weak-side help rotations.

Personally I've played lots of these kinds of teams. You can tell the moment you walk into the gym, instead of an old strict white guy as a coach their coach is his teens wearing sweatpants and messing around with the players. Usually they don't run any plays and play really aggresive defense( try to swat every shot instead of just keeping their arms straight) so it's easy to get them in foul trouble. Also, they usually have WACK shot selection. One guy can miss 7 pull-up threes in transition from nearly NBA range and have no hesitation to shoot the next time down.

Overall your game plan should be lock them down tight and frustrate on defense, and try to slow down the game and run your halfcourt sets on offense. Since you said your kids have great fundamentals, try to get the other team in foul trouble and hurt them from the line.

iamgine 10-27-2012 10:26 AM

Re: Zone or Man to Man D against fast, black, athletic youth?
 
Yeah def play zone first. See which ones can/cannot shoot. Then adjust from there.

01amberfirewv 10-29-2012 10:29 AM

Re: Zone or Man to Man D against fast, black, athletic youth?
 
Would it be different if you were playing fast white players lol:banana:


Are you coaching or playing? If you are coaching young players make them play man and make them learn how to do it. If they get beat then they need to run (not slide) and recover. If this is an adult team you are on then you guys need to work on getting faster. Black or white, anyone can be fast it just takes work

Burgz V2 10-29-2012 04:49 PM

Re: Zone or Man to Man D against fast, black, athletic youth?
 
play a 2-3 and hope they can't shoot, or play a 3-2 and hope they can't penetrate/don't see the weakside and backdoor courts well

neither will work if your players don't beat the other team down the court and set up early. work in practice on them sprinting to half and then turning and facing their opponents while backpedaling. the best way to implement the zone is to know its weaknesses, and passes over your defense before you've turned and faced the other team will eat a zone apart

i also coach but i tell my players, unless you can defend man to man you wont touch the court. period. might want to stay man and teach them the hard way lol.

Darkess 10-31-2012 04:36 PM

Re: Zone or Man to Man D against fast, black, athletic youth?
 
This post comes across as racist. The only reason you would write about your opponent's skin color in both the title and post is if you think it makes a difference. It doesn't matter if you think it's positive or negative, still comes across as racist.

Ignoring that... try both out and see if zone works. If not, switch it up. They'll likely show you pretty quickly what they have a preference for.

ILLsmak 10-31-2012 07:40 PM

Re: Zone or Man to Man D against fast, black, athletic youth?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkess
This post comes across as racist. The only reason you would write about your opponent's skin color in both the title and post is if you think it makes a difference. It doesn't matter if you think it's positive or negative, still comes across as racist.

Ignoring that... try both out and see if zone works. If not, switch it up. They'll likely show you pretty quickly what they have a preference for.


I think it's hilarious.

When I see fast, black, athletic youth, I cross to the other side of the street.

-Smak

iamgine 11-01-2012 12:15 PM

Re: Zone or Man to Man D against fast, black, athletic youth?
 
Actually the race are useful in explaining. Fast is fast but a white people's "fast" are usually lower than black people's. Just like Jeremy Lin is athletic for Asian but not so much if he's black. Perhaps sounds racist but true.

ILLsmak 11-01-2012 02:23 PM

Re: Zone or Man to Man D against fast, black, athletic youth?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by iamgine
Actually the race are useful in explaining. Fast is fast but a white people's "fast" are usually lower than black people's. Just like Jeremy Lin is athletic for Asian but not so much if he's black. Perhaps sounds racist but true.


It's not true... lol. Plus there are more races than black and white. I'm half Mauritian and half "white" and while I am not tall, I am just as athletic as anyone I've ever seen. Both of my parents were great athletes.

I think most people just think of black people when they think of athleticism.

This is a chuckle-worthy racist thread, not because it's demeaning but just because of the ignorant way it comes off. Like you would have to play differently against white people or black people. I'm surprised someone didn't come in like, "TRY TO OUTSMART THEM!"

-Smak

iamgine 11-01-2012 05:36 PM

Re: Zone or Man to Man D against fast, black, athletic youth?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLsmak
It's not true... lol. Plus there are more races than black and white. I'm half Mauritian and half "white" and while I am not tall, I am just as athletic as anyone I've ever seen. Both of my parents were great athletes.

I think most people just think of black people when they think of athleticism.

This is a chuckle-worthy racist thread, not because it's demeaning but just because of the ignorant way it comes off. Like you would have to play differently against white people or black people. I'm surprised someone didn't come in like, "TRY TO OUTSMART THEM!"

-Smak

why use yourself as example when you're the exception to the rule?

ILLsmak 11-01-2012 07:48 PM

Re: Zone or Man to Man D against fast, black, athletic youth?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by iamgine
why use yourself as example when you're the exception to the rule?


What rule? The rule is athleticism is genetic not race-specific.

White people can't be athletic? All black people are athletic?

WAT U SAYIN BOY? Black people have a higher ceiling of athleticism? A fast athletic black man is faster than a fast athletic white man?

http://www.pbs.org/race/000_About/00...ound-01-06.htm

-Smak

01amberfirewv 11-02-2012 10:43 AM

Re: Zone or Man to Man D against fast, black, athletic youth?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLsmak
It's not true... lol. Plus there are more races than black and white. I'm half Mauritian and half "white" and while I am not tall, I am just as athletic as anyone I've ever seen. Both of my parents were great athletes.

I think most people just think of black people when they think of athleticism.

This is a chuckle-worthy racist thread, not because it's demeaning but just because of the ignorant way it comes off. Like you would have to play differently against white people or black people. I'm surprised someone didn't come in like, "TRY TO OUTSMART THEM!"

-Smak


I agree, that's the old stereotype, all blacks can jump and run but white people are smarter. I think it has more to do with where you grow up than the pigment of your skin.

I would think this kind of thinking would start to disappear. People used to say blacks couldn't be QB's because they weren't smart enough but look at the black QB's in the NFC and NCAA. And for those who think whites are slow and can't jump look up Jacob Tucker and Micah Lancaster on youtube.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamgine
Actually the race are useful in explaining. Fast is fast but a white people's "fast" are usually lower than black people's. Just like Jeremy Lin is athletic for Asian but not so much if he's black. Perhaps sounds racist but true.



I've played with fast black's and whites but I have to say the quickest and fastest player I have ever played with was a 5'2" Asian. I agree with who ever said it doesn't matter though, put in work and forget the ceiling.

iamgine 11-03-2012 02:21 AM

Re: Zone or Man to Man D against fast, black, athletic youth?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLsmak
What rule? The rule is athleticism is genetic not race-specific.

White people can't be athletic? All black people are athletic?

WAT U SAYIN BOY? Black people have a higher ceiling of athleticism? A fast athletic black man is faster than a fast athletic white man?

http://www.pbs.org/race/000_About/00...ound-01-06.htm

-Smak

The rule that black people have higher expectation. It's true.

"Fast black guys" and "fast Samoan guys" is giving different picture of how fast they are.

IGOTGAME 11-05-2012 01:50 PM

Re: Zone or Man to Man D against fast, black, athletic youth?
 
I don't like playing zone in pickup. I do sometimes when I don't really have a choice. Where I grew up it was taboo. Even playing pick up with my team in college it was taboo. It kind of like saying I'm not good enough to man-up.

Also, the idea that 4 random white guys are better than athletic black guys but can only beat them with a zone is funny. Most likely these guys have no real bball training and the rotations are crap. If they were really smart they can just back off there man and get lots of help from their teammates.


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