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-   -   MYTH: Where art thou [Behaviorism] (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=281982)

LamarOdom 11-19-2012 11:15 PM

MYTH: Where art thou [Behaviorism]
 
I've been reading about this lately and one quote that has really interested me from Watson..

Quote:

Give me a dozen healthy infants, well-formed, and my own specified world to bring them up in and I'll guarantee to take any one at random and train him to become any type of specialist I might select--doctor, lawyer, artist, merchant-chief, and, yes, even beggarman and thief, regardless of his talents, penchants, tendencies, abilities, vocations, and race of his ancestors.

Is this something that has worked with the upbringing of children? I'm thinking of marrying a niggres that is tall and have great genes and than use this to make my sons dream a baller.

A one and done college player I can be rich at the age of 40... watcha think?

bmulls 11-19-2012 11:19 PM

Re: MYTH: Where art thou [Behaviorism]
 
Watch the ESPN documentary "The Marinovich Project". It's about Todd Marinovich, USC QB who played in the pros for a few years. His dad basically trained him from birth to be a QB, kid was a monster in high school and college and went into the pros with Andrew Luck type hype. Eventually though he had so many mental issues he wound up with addiction problems and was out of the league in a few years.

Same thing kind of with Michael Jackson. Kids raised to be something special can make it, but a lot of times they end up so fcked in the head they can't truly enjoy it.

LamarOdom 11-20-2012 12:10 AM

Re: MYTH: Where art thou [Behaviorism]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bmulls
Watch the ESPN documentary "The Marinovich Project". It's about Todd Marinovich, USC QB who played in the pros for a few years. His dad basically trained him from birth to be a QB, kid was a monster in high school and college and went into the pros with Andrew Luck type hype. Eventually though he had so many mental issues he wound up with addiction problems and was out of the league in a few years.

Same thing kind of with Michael Jackson. Kids raised to be something special can make it, but a lot of times they end up so fcked in the head they can't truly enjoy it.


I haven't seen the documentary but I have read about Marinovich and this isn't really the same thing.

His father was a psycho.

Myth 11-20-2012 01:06 AM

Re: MYTH: Where art thou [Behaviorism]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LamarOdom
I've been reading about this lately and one quote that has really interested me from Watson..



Is this something that has worked with the upbringing of children? I'm thinking of marrying a niggres that is tall and have great genes and than use this to make my sons dream a baller.

A one and done college player I can be rich at the age of 40... watcha think?


I think an important part that is often excluded is his last sentence: "I am going beyond my facts and I admit it, but so have the advocates of the contrary and they have been doing it for many thousands of years"

I don't claim to be a behaviorist, but I think there is some truth to what was said, but it is not fully accurate. You can certainly teach people to be certain things, but how good they are at that thing still has to do with genetics. I don't attribute to the "blank slate" theory, but environment does play a huge part in it.

As far as your basketball plan, if you train a kid (or hire a trainer) to be a basketball player at a young age, he will likely be pretty good. But NBA good? Hard to say. You still will have a hard time determining size, natural athleticism, the child's personal motivation (you could make him hate basketball), and durability (you could raise the next Greg Oden, and have him break before the NBA paycheck). Then there are simple matters such as, if he doesn't make it, did you set him up for failure in other aspects of life? Plus any other curve ball.

LamarOdom 11-20-2012 01:22 AM

Re: MYTH: Where art thou [Behaviorism]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Myth
I think an important part that is often excluded is his last sentence: "I am going beyond my facts and I admit it, but so have the advocates of the contrary and they have been doing it for many thousands of years"

I don't claim to be a behaviorist, but I think there is some truth to what was said, but it is not fully accurate. You can certainly teach people to be certain things, but how good they are at that thing still has to do with genetics. I don't attribute to the "blank slate" theory, but environment does play a huge part in it.

As far as your basketball plan, if you train a kid (or hire a trainer) to be a basketball player at a young age, he will likely be pretty good. But NBA good? Hard to say. You still will have a hard time determining size, natural athleticism, the child's personal motivation (you could make him hate basketball), and durability (you could raise the next Greg Oden, and have him break before the NBA paycheck). Then there are simple matters such as, if he doesn't make it, did you set him up for failure in other aspects of life? Plus any other curve ball.


Yeah that is where the black women comes in:)

No but honestly I really find this interesting, say doctor/lawyer/whatever if I want my child to become that I can while he still little somehow implement that being doctor/lawyer will lead to success etc.

Like the case with Albert one of Watson human experiment, he liked white rats and one day he heard a sound while holding this rat that scared him. This made him scared of white bunnies, white dogs and people with white beard.

And when I read about behaviorism I remembered a friend of my father, whenever he visited i got so fukcin scared I used to hide under beds and tables whenever he visited which wasn't too often (thank god for that). He moved away and to make a short story even shorter I saw him 3-4 years ago but wasn't scared of him anymore. I never knew why I was scared of him as a child but I think behaviorism has the answer.

Anyway if I would want to do such an experiment how would I get these thoughts into a child?

Myth 11-20-2012 01:30 AM

Re: MYTH: Where art thou [Behaviorism]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LamarOdom
Yeah that is where the black women comes in:)

No but honestly I really find this interesting, say doctor/lawyer/whatever if I want my child to become that I can while he still little somehow implement that being doctor/lawyer will lead to success etc.

Like the case with Albert one of Watson human experiment, he liked white rats and one day he heard a sound while holding this rat that scared him. This made him scared of white bunnies, white dogs and people with white beard.

And when I read about behaviorism I remembered a friend of my father, whenever he visited i got so fukcin scared I used to hide under beds and tables whenever he visited which wasn't too often (thank god for that). He moved away and to make a short story even shorter I saw him 3-4 years ago but wasn't scared of him anymore. I never knew why I was scared of him as a child but I think behaviorism has the answer.

Anyway if I would want to do such an experiment how would I get these thoughts into a child?


Well, fear of something is one of the easiest things to condition. We remember emotional events better for survival reasons. The Little Albert study is pretty damn famous, but it is also famous because of the unethical shit that was done.

I'm not exactly sure how to go about doing this with basketball. My best guess is to just surround a kid with basketball related stuff all the time. I think this is one reason NBA players often have children that make the NBA (that plus the genetics). Lots of positive reinforcement would be important. You have to really make that kid love basketball. If he ends up doing it like it is a chore, he will try to get by with the minimum you require, and potentially quit, or rebel (would hate to see a kid pushed so hard that it drives him to skipping school and practice to do drugs).

LamarOdom 11-20-2012 01:38 AM

Re: MYTH: Where art thou [Behaviorism]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Myth
Well, fear of something is one of the easiest things to condition. We remember emotional events better for survival reasons. The Little Albert study is pretty damn famous, but it is also famous because of the unethical shit that was done.

I'm not exactly sure how to go about doing this with basketball. My best guess is to just surround a kid with basketball related stuff all the time. I think this is one reason NBA players often have children that make the NBA (that plus the genetics). Lots of positive reinforcement would be important. You have to really make that kid love basketball. If he ends up doing it like it is a chore, he will try to get by with the minimum you require, and potentially quit, or rebel (would hate to see a kid pushed so hard that it drives him to skipping school and practice to do drugs).


Well yeah basketball would be hard since genetics play a large role but if we're talking about a profession like lawyer/doctor or whatever.

Shieet I'm gon execute this plan on my future offspring. ahh well then I can scrape the idea of getting with a black chick, don't won't no cornrows or afro in my damn house anyway.

iamgine 11-20-2012 02:11 AM

Re: MYTH: Where art thou [Behaviorism]
 
Genetic only plays a small role in basketball. Heck, a guy like Steve Nash can be 2x MVP by being average genetic wise. All he does is eat and train right. Many more athletic guys don't even make it.

Myth 11-20-2012 03:09 AM

Re: MYTH: Where art thou [Behaviorism]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LamarOdom
Well yeah basketball would be hard since genetics play a large role but if we're talking about a profession like lawyer/doctor or whatever.


One thing that helped with my education was that it was always assumed I would go to college. Like I was never asked "Do you think you will go to college?" It was "Where do you think you will go to college?" Beyond that, there was heavy pressure to go for an MD. I ultimately decided on my own to not get an MD, but I don't think going for a Psy.D. is too shabby as a backup plan.

InspiredLebowski 11-20-2012 03:23 AM

Re: MYTH: Where art thou [Behaviorism]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by iamgine
Genetic only plays a small role in basketball. Heck, a guy like Steve Nash can be 2x MVP by being average genetic wise. All he does is eat and train right. Many more athletic guys don't even make it.

This is wrong. Steve Nash is average genetically only in the world of professional sports, if even that really.


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