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-   -   The Point Forward - SI.com "bonus and bust so far" (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=282710)

Jballer 11-28-2012 09:24 AM

The Point Forward - SI.com "bonus and bust so far"
 
RM: Both fine — if depressing — choices, but I’ve got two more to consider. The first is Toronto’s Andrea Bargnani, who is creating legitimate doubt about his ability to be even a complementary piece in a winning offense. Bargnani is a talented scorer, but he never seems to have his game fully aligned with the Raptors’ offensive goals. He oversteps his bounds, forces shots and generally lives in his own world. When at his best, Bargnani is still operating in an entirely different framework from the rest of his team. His divergence in approach may share some minor goals with the Raptors overall, but ultimately Toronto has little use for a player who oscillates between overshooting and bouts of being gun-shy, with only a void in between. The balance and efficiency that boosted Bargnani’s game early last season has gone up in smoke, as the one-time franchise centerpiece allows his career to slowly burn away.

http://nba.si.com/2012/11/27/nba-sta...2_a0&eref=sihp


___


Nothing new here but the press is picking up on sentiment.

lilbeastnani 12-01-2012 12:52 PM

Re: The Point Forward - SI.com "bonus and bust so far"
 
Quote:

Andrea Bargnani, who is creating legitimate doubt about his ability to be even a complementary piece in a winning offense

But we don't have a "winning offense" though. Just for shits and giggles, let's say you remove Bargnani from the team altogether and plug in Carlos Boozer. Exact same team around him. Do you think we suddenly become a top 4 team in the east? I sure don't.

Now lets inject Bargs onto a winning roster. Hell, let's say he plays on the Nets in place of Brook Lopez. I think they'd be a just as good team if not better making that switch. So it's a little unfair to me to say your boy hasn't delivered when from the time Bosh left he hasn't had the talent around him to really be expected to take them somewhere.

bluerap 12-01-2012 03:04 PM

Re: The Point Forward - SI.com "bonus and bust so far"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lilbeastnani
But we don't have a "winning offense" though. Just for shits and giggles, let's say you remove Bargnani from the team altogether and plug in Carlos Boozer. Exact same team around him. Do you think we suddenly become a top 4 team in the east? I sure don't.

Now lets inject Bargs onto a winning roster. Hell, let's say he plays on the Nets in place of Brook Lopez. I think they'd be a just as good team if not better making that switch. So it's a little unfair to me to say your boy hasn't delivered when from the time Bosh left he hasn't had the talent around him to really be expected to take them somewhere.


I appreciate the fact that you have toned down your bargnani or bust attitude and in general have become a more polite poster.

But again, you are wrong (not intended to sound harsh). Boozer is kind of washed up so not really a good comparison. Let's say we replaced bargs with Aldridge. We still wouldn't be a top 4 team but we would be a hell of a lot better.

And no, NJ is way better off with Lopez than they would be with Bargs. We would be as well.

Also, he was not well suited to playing beside bosh so that part of your argument is also weak.

Can Bargnani be a piece on another team competitive team? I don't see why not. I think he is best suited as a 6th or 7th man (first scoring big off the bench). Where he can coast on 14-15ppg and 3 rebs.

lilbeastnani 12-01-2012 03:47 PM

Re: The Point Forward - SI.com "bonus and bust so far"
 
The reason I don't jump into the Bargnani hate threads anymore is because it's pointless. He's on the wrong team and I would love to see him get traded to a team more suited for him where he could really be appreciated and show off his tremendous and unique skillset. I whole heartedly disagree about the Nets being much worse off and us being much better off if we swapped Lopez for Bargnani. Brook Lopez is putting up 18/7 and Bargs is putting up 17/5. But the last 2 seasons he's put up 21/5 and 19/6 so we know what he's capable of. They aren't that far off as players. Brook isn't that good of a defender or rebounder and gets a lot of undue praise. And I think you put him on our team and you'd see those limitations because they wouldn't be so well hidden playing on a starting lineup alongside Gerald Wallace and Kris Humphries.

bluerap 12-01-2012 05:52 PM

Re: The Point Forward - SI.com "bonus and bust so far"
 
I actually don't think there is a huge difference between the two defensively. Lopez is a better rebounder (but so is my grandmother so that doesn't say much, he is actually pretty bad on the glass too). The difference is that Lopez is WAY more consistent.

bokes15 12-01-2012 08:27 PM

Re: The Point Forward - SI.com "bonus and bust so far"
 
From a defensive standpoint, having 4 strong defenders and rebounders next to him like Williams/Johnson/Wallace/Humphries would certainly help him look better. But the reason I don't think it'd work is because they feed it to Lopez a ton in the paint. Looking at his advance stats, 61% of his shots are coming from the inside vs 26% for Bargs. So unless he significantly changed his game to have a consistent post presence, they would suddenly become a purely perimeter oriented team and it would take away the majority of their most basic offensive schemes that they frequently use. It's hard to build a team around a big who takes 74% of his shots from the perimeter. The team would have to be perfectly moulded around him and he would have to be at least approaching Dirk levels to justify doing so.

DJMason 12-01-2012 10:15 PM

Re: The Point Forward - SI.com "bonus and bust so far"
 
The ultimate problem for me is that when Bargs' shot isn't falling (all to frequently this year) he brings very little else to the table offensively or otherwise (read: last nights game and the game he went 2 for 20 earlier). His best role in a "winning offense" would be to have him come off the bench and hopefully add some spark to the second unit. Hell, his contract isn't even so large that we couldn't trade him to someone who needed just that type of player (Crawford and Odom made similar $$$ playing a similar role IIRC). Unfortunately that type of role will never happen here.

Skywalker 12-01-2012 10:27 PM

Re: The Point Forward - SI.com "bonus and bust so far"
 
Bargs is terrible.

T-Low 12-02-2012 12:51 PM

Re: The Point Forward - SI.com "bonus and bust so far"
 
My buddy said it best when he said, "You can't rebound from the 3-point line"

bokes15 12-03-2012 10:07 PM

Re: The Point Forward - SI.com "bonus and bust so far"
 
I'm so tired of Bargnani, honestly. The one thing that people used to say about him was that he had a "unique offensive skillset" for his height. Well that was only because he had the potential to have an inside/outside game. Now that he's totally abandoned the inside game, he's pretty much a 7 foot SG. And as Q says all the time, what use do we have for a 7 foot Jamal Crawford. If he's gonna be our starting 4, he HAS to grab boards and play D which are two things he's well below average at. His offense isn't good enough to justify it either. He's so hit and miss because he's all perimeter and he sucks at everything else. Management should've put an ultimatum on BC to trade him or get fired.

Chamberlain 12-04-2012 12:34 AM

Re: The Point Forward - SI.com "bonus and bust so far"
 
Tonight Jack and Devlin were going on about how if the NBA got rid of the 3 point line there would be so many players out of work. For the rest of the game, Bargnani sat at the 3 point line waving his hands in the air.

bokes15 12-04-2012 01:03 AM

Re: The Point Forward - SI.com "bonus and bust so far"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chamberlain
Tonight Jack and Devlin were going on about how if the NBA got rid of the 3 point line there would be so many players out of work. For the rest of the game, Bargnani sat at the 3 point line waving his hands in the air.

That pissed me off. I'd like to see this team run a consistent high-low game through Val. It doesn't even mean that he has to be our #1 scoring option but he's shown that he's more than adept in the paint so he could take it in the blocks and either do some work down there or kick it out to the perimeter for a shooter. Yeah, it would kind of limit what Bargs does a little bit but he doesn't do much anyways so I see that as a major improvement. Secondly, i'm getting sick and tired of Ed Davis getting spotty minutes when everytime he's in there he's an absolute beast on the glass and defense. The dude is getting FIFTEEN minutes per game and grabbing more boards than Bargs is in THIRTY FOUR!!! Like, am I going crazy or something? Does management and coaching staff live in an alternate reality?:facepalm

Qwyjibo 12-04-2012 01:14 AM

Re: The Point Forward - SI.com "bonus and bust so far"
 
Guys, guys, I think you are forgetting one important thing.

That's a 7 footer out there!

bokes15 12-04-2012 01:33 AM

Re: The Point Forward - SI.com "bonus and bust so far"
 
And just to add more fuel to my fire right now, I just checked our team stats and guess who is our 6th best rebounder behind Lowry, Val, Amir, Davis, and Demar. And the only one of those guys who get more minutes than him is Demar, not that it matters consider it's a 2 guard.

Chamberlain 12-04-2012 01:58 PM

Re: The Point Forward - SI.com "bonus and bust so far"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
Guys, guys, I think you are forgetting one important thing.

That's a 7 footer out there!


:oldlol:

Every god damn time Bargnani does something that isn't a 3 pointer... "That's a 7 footer out there!"


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