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-   -   Calling for the next Barry Sanders: Stafford and Megatron desperately seek you. (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=285153)

Legend of Josh 12-23-2012 05:01 AM

Calling for the next Barry Sanders: Stafford and Megatron desperately seek you.
 
You can easily make the argument Matthew Stafford + Calvin Johnson = the best passer and receiver duo in the entire league, but the real question is will this pair ever be enough to reach the Superbowl (much less win one) alone? The Detroit Lions offensive line is average-to-above-average, giving Stafford plenty of time to throw and often finding his go-to guy in Megatron, but without a respectable running game, I question the Lions ability to do damage in the post season.

I can easily see these two guys shattering records if they spend their entire careers together, but what's the real value in regular season passing/receiving records if there's no Superbowl rings to complement? I'm willing to bet your average NFL fan couldn't tell you the name of Detroit's #1 option running back, but surely the average NFL fan could tell you there was once a Lions RB who is commonly considered one of the greatest of all time.





Perhaps Barry Sanders isn't regarded as the surefire GOAT at the position, as most would give that honor to the legend (who's picture above Sanders) who played for the team he shared his own last name with, but you'd be ill-founded to make an argument Mr. Mighty Mite outside of any Top 3 of all time argument. He proved it doesn't take sheer size and strength to dominate the position; and that it's more about heart and raw determination.

American's favorite sport is often referred to as the "not for long" league. At one time the Lions possessed the league's best running back. Now they possess the league's greatest receiver, and one of the best quarterbacks with quite possibly the strongest arm. These two guys are going to certainly entertain as long as they're healthy in this new era pass-happy league. I do however question their (the Lions) ability to damage teams in the playoffs and question if and when they'll ever make a Superbowl or win one - without a respectable running game.

Real Men Wear Green 12-23-2012 08:40 AM

Re: Calling for the next Barry Sanders: Stafford and Megatron desperately seek you.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Legend of Josh
You can easily make the argument Matthew Stafford + Calvin Johnson = the best passer and receiver duo in the entire league

No you can't. As great as Johnson is Stafford isn't one of the top QBs yet. He's got a ton of yards because his WR is record-setting but is himself out of the top 20 in TDs and tied for fifth-most interceptions.

Legend of Josh 12-23-2012 09:32 AM

Re: Calling for the next Barry Sanders: Stafford and Megatron desperately seek you.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
No you can't. As great as Johnson is Stafford isn't one of the top QBs yet. He's got a ton of yards because his WR is record-setting but is himself out of the top 20 in TDs and tied for fifth-most interceptions.


I'll agree 100% that Megatron is the better half, there's really no comparison. One is the best player at his position (Johnson) and the other isn't even Top 5 (yet). However when you combine the two, IMO you can make the argument they're the best duo in the league.

You say no. Alright, so you list better duos out there. Go.

Wavves 12-23-2012 10:08 AM

Re: Calling for the next Barry Sanders: Stafford and Megatron desperately seek you.
 
I agree that Stafford is no where near an elite player, top 10 QB is questionable and is a matter of opinion, but him and Johnson are without a doubt the best duo in the league. The two by themselves can dominate on offense with the best of them.

Megatron makes Stafford a much better quarterback and makes Stafford's stats very deceiving, but you cannot deny that Stafford is a above average quarterback and at times can play top quality football.

Jackass18 12-23-2012 10:15 AM

Re: Calling for the next Barry Sanders: Stafford and Megatron desperately seek you.
 
Stafford has been pretty mediocre this season. They might be the best passer/receiver duo, but that would be off the strength of Johnson. The Lions had a better run game this season, but a much worse record. Not really a team I see winning SBs as of now. They need to make some big strides.

Other top duos:
Brady-Welker
Manning-Thomas
Schaub-Johnson
Ryan-White/Jones
Brees-Colston

Carbine 12-23-2012 10:21 AM

Re: Calling for the next Barry Sanders: Stafford and Megatron desperately seek you.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Legend of Josh
You can easily make the argument Matthew Stafford + Calvin Johnson = the best passer and receiver duo in the entire league, but the real question is will this pair ever be enough to reach the Superbowl (much less win one) alone? The Detroit Lions offensive line is average-to-above-average, giving Stafford plenty of time to throw and often finding his go-to guy in Megatron, but without a respectable running game, I question the Lions ability to do damage in the post season.

I can easily see these two guys shattering records if they spend their entire careers together, but what's the real value in regular season passing/receiving records if there's no Superbowl rings to complement? I'm willing to bet your average NFL fan couldn't tell you the name of Detroit's #1 option running back, but surely the average NFL fan could tell you there was once a Lions RB who is commonly considered one of the greatest of all time.





Perhaps Barry Sanders isn't regarded as the surefire GOAT at the position, as most would give that honor to the legend (who's picture above Sanders) who played for the team he shared his own last name with, but you'd be ill-founded to make an argument Mr. Mighty Mite outside of any Top 3 of all time argument. He proved it doesn't take sheer size and strength to dominate the position; and that it's more about heart and raw determination.

American's favorite sport is often referred to as the "not for long" league. At one time the Lions possessed the league's best running back. Now they possess the league's greatest receiver, and one of the best quarterbacks with quite possibly the strongest arm. These two guys are going to certainly entertain as long as they're healthy in this new era pass-happy league. I do however question their (the Lions) ability to damage teams in the playoffs and question if and when they'll ever make a Superbowl or win one - without a respectable running game.


Why would it devalue it in any way? It's individual records.

AboveTheRim. 12-23-2012 12:32 PM

Re: Calling for the next Barry Sanders: Stafford and Megatron desperately seek you.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbine
Why would it devalue it in any way? It's individual records.


I think he was speaking in terms of the records will be meaningless to the franchise if they continue to lose games and not make the playoffs.

Now addressing the OP,

First off, the Lions offensive line is below average. They have one of the worst centers in the league, and don't get much support from the rest of the line. Stafford has gotten hit quite a bit this season, and I think that has really shaken his confidence. If they improve their offensive line in the off season (which I really hope they do), Stafford will put up better numbers (in terms of his td/interception ratio).

Secondly, while I don't think Stafford his playing like a top 10 quarterback this year, I truly believe he played like one last year. With that being said, I see him becoming a top 5-7 quarterback a couple years down the road, so long as he can continue to improve, and mainly focus on not throwing off his back foot.

Thirdly, I absolutely hate the argument that people make saying that the only reason a qb puts up good numbers is because they have a good receiver. Sure, having Calvin is a massive help, but defenses play the Lions like they don't even have a man in the backfield. Calvin has been doubled off the line of scrimmage numerous times this year, and teams have played their safeties 25 yards off the line of scrimmage, completely neutralizing the deep threat. Stafford is aided by Calvin, but to suggest that his numbers are only because of him is a ridiculous claim. Why doesn't Ryan Lindley put up great numbers? He's got Fitzgerald? Why hasn't Schaub had a 41 td, 5000 yard season? etc.

I am beginning to think that the Lions will never have a good running game. Jahvid Best being healthy would solve their running game issue almost completely, but as with the the way the running back position goes in Detroit, he has had too many concussions and may never play football again.

Skywalker 12-23-2012 12:39 PM

Re: Calling for the next Barry Sanders: Stafford and Megatron desperately seek you.
 
I suspect their scheme or oline aren't suited for a running game because Best and Leshoure are both good backs who averaged under 4 ypc as the feature back. What they need is a Matt Forte type RB I think.

AboveTheRim. 12-23-2012 12:55 PM

Re: Calling for the next Barry Sanders: Stafford and Megatron desperately seek you.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Skywalker
I suspect their scheme or oline aren't suited for a running game because Best and Leshoure are both good backs who averaged under 4 ypc as the feature back. What they need is a Matt Forte type RB I think.


Best was used a lot for screen passes, and dump offs that he could take for huge gains. From 2010-2011 he averaged 9.1 yards per reception, with 3 that went 50+. He was used more like Forte than any other Lions back, he just isn't great as a pure running back.

Legend of Josh 12-23-2012 01:30 PM

Re: Calling for the next Barry Sanders: Stafford and Megatron desperately seek you.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
No you can't. As great as Johnson is Stafford isn't one of the top QBs yet. He's got a ton of yards because his WR is record-setting but is himself out of the top 20 in TDs and tied for fifth-most interceptions.


Still waiting to see your personal list(s) of better QB/WR duo(s).

TheSilentKiller 12-23-2012 01:32 PM

Re: Calling for the next Barry Sanders: Stafford and Megatron desperately seek you.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
No you can't. As great as Johnson is Stafford isn't one of the top QBs yet. He's got a ton of yards because his WR is record-setting but is himself out of the top 20 in TDs and tied for fifth-most interceptions.

This.

TheSilentKiller 12-23-2012 01:35 PM

Re: Calling for the next Barry Sanders: Stafford and Megatron desperately seek you.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackass18
Stafford has been pretty mediocre this season. They might be the best passer/receiver duo, but that would be off the strength of Johnson. The Lions had a better run game this season, but a much worse record. Not really a team I see winning SBs as of now. They need to make some big strides.

Other top duos:
Brady-Welker
Manning-Thomas
Schaub-Johnson
Ryan-White/Jones
Brees-Colston

This season I would take all of those duos based solely on Staffords shortcomings this season.

Legend of Josh 12-23-2012 01:48 PM

Re: Calling for the next Barry Sanders: Stafford and Megatron desperately seek you.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSilentKiller
This.


So I'll ask you the same question I asked Real Green. List the better QB/WR duos in the league.

Real Men Wear Green 12-23-2012 02:06 PM

Re: Calling for the next Barry Sanders: Stafford and Megatron desperately seek you.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Legend of Josh
Still waiting to see your personal list(s) of better QB/WR duo(s).

I went to the gym, please be patient. I'd put Schaub and Johnson over them, Manning and Cruz, Brady and Welker, Ryan and White, maybe a few others. I realize that Johnson is #1 by a wide margin over any other receiver but we're supposed to be evaluating duos here, which should mean this is about more than the receiver's stats. Stafford isn't a Sanchez-bad QB but we're looking at 17 TDs to 16 interceptions. The team is 4-11. Not Johnson's fault at all but Stafford with his interceptions gets a healthy share of the blame for that. If you have the best QB/receceiver duo you shouldn't have such a terrible record.

IGotACoolStory 12-23-2012 05:25 PM

Re: Calling for the next Barry Sanders: Stafford and Megatron desperately seek you.
 
They need to draft Gio Bernard. He's similar to Ray Rice and that would fit perfectly with the Lions.


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