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-   -   Marc Stein : Bargnani "a lock to be moved" (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=285794)

bokes15 12-30-2012 01:45 AM

Marc Stein : Bargnani "a lock to be moved"
 
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...k-to-be-moved/
Quote:

One source close to the situation said Friday that Bargnani remains “a lock to be moved.” That naturally depends on finding a taker for the underachieving Italian forward, but (Kyle) Lowry’s contract shouldn’t be too hard to attach to a trade, valued at $5.8 million this season and with only $1 million guaranteed of the $6.2 million he’s owed next season.”

Marc Stein | ESPN.com

I'm not sure how i'd feel about keeping Calderon in the deal. If anything i'd rather keep Lowry and get rid of Jose since he's not a part of our long term plans.

lilbeastnani 12-30-2012 03:19 AM

Re: Marc Stein : Bargnani "a lock to be moved"
 
This article is basically saying he's a "lock" to be on the trading block which everyone already knows. Why are all these reporters so desperate to break a Bargnani story. It's getting old.

RaininThrees 12-30-2012 10:44 AM

Re: Marc Stein : Bargnani "a lock to be moved"
 
Good. He needs to go. If Lowry nets you a better return, I think you have to do it.

Qwyjibo 12-30-2012 11:43 AM

Re: Marc Stein : Bargnani "a lock to be moved"
 
Both Lowry and Calderon should be available. Then again, the Raptors should be rebuilding. But we all know that won't be the case until changes are made.

bluerap 12-30-2012 02:57 PM

Re: Marc Stein : Bargnani "a lock to be moved"
 
crazy at it sounds

right now I wouldn't trade anyone (except maybe calderon because his stock is as high as it will get).

But we are riding high playing our best basketball in a long time. Why trade lowry or, dare i say it bargnani, when their stock is so low.

If they are willing to bring bargs off the bench than I say keep him a little longer until his stock rises a little.

I think a bench of lowry, bargs, amir, anderson and ross can bury just about every team's bench (the only one I can think of that is better is the clippers).

I know it may be fool's gold but I am really enjoying the way they are playing lately. No doubt the schedule is a big part of it but it has been fun to watch.

bokes15 12-30-2012 03:11 PM

Re: Marc Stein : Bargnani "a lock to be moved"
 
Bench or starter, I don't think Bargnani's stock is gonna rise and I think the best we could hope for is an expiring vet or a late first rounder for him. I think people should lower their expectations of what we might get in a Bargs trade.

Qwyjibo 12-30-2012 03:29 PM

Re: Marc Stein : Bargnani "a lock to be moved"
 
Quote:

I know it may be fool's gold but I am really enjoying the way they are playing lately. No doubt the schedule is a big part of it but it has been fun to watch.
That's exactly what the Raptors front office wants to hear.

I also don't think Lowry's value is low at all. Being out a couple games doesn't do that. He's still playing better than he ever has in his career.

bokes15 12-30-2012 05:26 PM

Re: Marc Stein : Bargnani "a lock to be moved"
 
I'm just happy that Lowry came back before Bargnani so people could see that the subtraction of Bargnani is by and away the largest factor to our improved team. But i'm also tired of their being so many questions surrounding this team. Do we trademCalderon or do we keep him. How much value do we get for Bargs and where do we send him. Do we tank or do we gun for an 8th seed. It sucks having a pilot who couldn't navigate to save his life.

Pistol Pete 12-31-2012 02:16 AM

Re: Marc Stein : Bargnani "a lock to be moved"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bokes15
I'm just happy that Lowry came back before Bargnani so people could see that the subtraction of Bargnani is by and away the largest factor to our improved team. But i'm also tired of their being so many questions surrounding this team. Do we trademCalderon or do we keep him. How much value do we get for Bargs and where do we send him. Do we tank or do we gun for an 8th seed. It sucks having a pilot who couldn't navigate to save his life.


-Trade Calderon, for any pick or young upside piece you can get, Calderon will have no role in this team winning a title, keeping him is a waste of a valuable commodity.

-Trade Bargnani, for nothing if necessary, in order to dump his contract and retain flexibility with respect to cap space. The ship has sailed, there is no reasonable viewpoint that suggests he will ever get it, cut bait, it's time to move on, he will never be a part of the solution. If you can get a future pick or a young upside piece along with an expiring deal, pull the trigger right now.

-Assess the trade market for Lowry, if you can return a profit on your original deal, get it done. Think objectively, will he sign here when free agency comes up after next year? Don't allow such a talented player to walk out the door in his prime. When in doubt, get the big package in return. You cannot let these pieces walk out the door for free.

-Assess the trade market for Demar Derozan (now overpaid), Amir Johnson (probably paid correctly), Landry Fields (LOL), and people like Aaron Gray, John Lucas, Linas Kleiza. With the exception of Amir, if you can get anything upside, future related, pull the trigger.

-As for the rest of this year, I think you just play it out, due to the strength of the draft, it's clearly preferable to give up the pick this year. I think we'll win enough to safely miss keeping it, so where we fall is where we fall.

-The key should be to win a title. How do you win the title? Make shrewd, objective decisions about your ball club, retain cap flexibility (to sign max players), or collect picks to find max players. We currently have neither.

I wouldn't trade Jonas Valanciunas, Ed Davis, or Terrence Ross. Emerging players, cheap contracts, high upside and a possible role in a title winner. Everyone else, I wouldn't hesitate to move if the price were right. To rebuild, you got to do it right and you can't deviate from the plan. With that said, Colangelo will never do this, so sit back, and enjoy the shit storm that's about to explode.

bokes15 12-31-2012 02:57 AM

Re: Marc Stein : Bargnani "a lock to be moved"
 
^^ In reading your post, I realized I actually never even considered the fact that it's a possibility that we have neither Calderon or Lowry on our roster next year. Which to me makes it even that much more important to make a long term commitment to one (preferably Lowry IMO) and trade the other. It would be a mess if we reach the end of the year with both of them and they both walk. :lol

b4ball 12-31-2012 09:54 AM

Re: Marc Stein : Bargnani "a lock to be moved"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bokes15
^^ In reading your post, I realized I actually never even considered the fact that it's a possibility that we have neither Calderon or Lowry on our roster next year. Which to me makes it even that much more important to make a long term commitment to one (preferably Lowry IMO) and trade the other. It would be a mess if we reach the end of the year with both of them and they both walk. :lol


Lowry is locked for next year (cheap) and he's done nothing to deserve an extention yet. If anything he's already proven to not understand his role. Third team that relegates him as the back up point guard. Let's wait until the trade deadline and see who is available, or which teams are looking to dump and what teams are looking to add.

Qwyjibo 12-31-2012 10:24 AM

Re: Marc Stein : Bargnani "a lock to be moved"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bokes15
^^ In reading your post, I realized I actually never even considered the fact that it's a possibility that we have neither Calderon or Lowry on our roster next year. Which to me makes it even that much more important to make a long term commitment to one (preferably Lowry IMO) and trade the other. It would be a mess if we reach the end of the year with both of them and they both walk. :lol

Why do we need to have one of them on the roster next year? If the Raptors are rebuilding with a new GM (what I hope) then you're basically tanking and developing your young players.

You don't re-sign Jose Calderon in his 30's to a multi-year deal if you're rebuilding. You don't necessarily need a player in his prime on the verge of a big contract like Lowry since you won't be a good team through his best years. It all comes down to a new GM being basically allowed to punt next year. At that point, who cares who is at PG unless it's a legit long-term option? Now Lowry might still be that but it all depends on what you can get for him in a trade.

Jballer 12-31-2012 10:56 AM

Re: Marc Stein : Bargnani "a lock to be moved"
 
Ignoring whether Lowry can or should be traded....

I think that moving Lowry is highly unlikely. I think Lowry wants to be the "man" and the promise via Dwayne Casey and Collangelo is that in Toronto he can be the man... I would suspect unless things are "really bad and ugly" Lowry will stay here...

--

To Steins post I think he is suggesting - inferring - that Bargnani can only be moved if there is an attractive component with that contract. i.e. he is the deadwieght in a deal to make it happen....

I think Raptor fans have always (hoped) suspected Jose and Andreas go as a package for something good and promising...

I think reality is Bargnani goes with (1) Ed Davis (2) Terrence Ross (3) John Lucas etc i.e. an affordable player with talent and upside for something back...

(unless the Lakers finally bite on Jose/Andreas for Pgas... and that deal is mostly about cap relief for the Lakers)

bluerap 12-31-2012 01:36 PM

Re: Marc Stein : Bargnani "a lock to be moved"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
That's exactly what the Raptors front office wants to hear.

I also don't think Lowry's value is low at all. Being out a couple games doesn't do that. He's still playing better than he ever has in his career.


:facepalm

I know, I know. I'm drinking kool-aid.
Still I want to see what happens over the next couple weeks.
Nothing significant will happen until Jan.15 any way because that is when new signees from the off-season (ie fields, etc.) can be traded. Not that we will find anyone to take him... but that is when others in similar situations will be available.

bokes15 12-31-2012 02:45 PM

Re: Marc Stein : Bargnani "a lock to be moved"
 
Quote:

Why do we need to have one of them on the roster next year? If the Raptors are rebuilding with a new GM (what I hope) then you're basically tanking and developing your young players.

The point wasn't about their long term ability and committment to the team, but rather the fact that they are both great assets who potentially could leave us for nothing. This isn't Bargnani we're talking about, these are 2 very serviceable starting quality point guards that a lot of teams could use.


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