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-   -   The difference 1 or 2 games make (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=285932)

elementally morale 12-31-2012 09:14 PM

The difference 1 or 2 games make
 
LeBron
Last year the Heat were down in their series vs. the Celtics. LeBron's stock was at an all-time low. Remember this: "Good job, good effort!"? Then they won the last two games against an ailing Boston team and went on to win the Finals. LeBron's stock is at an all-time high as a result. Imagine they lose to the Celtics. We wouldn't have all these articles praising James. Instead, we would hear 24/7 what a loser he is. OK, those few games changed the perception. But did they also change the player?


Kobe
The 2010 Finals vs. the Celtics. Artest and Gasol won that game 7. Kobe didn't deliver that day. Sure, he delivered many times before. Sure, him being Kobe made life easier for others due to defensive schemes. Still, they could easily have lost that game and the championship. Had that happened, we would hear how Kobe is unable to get it done. (OK, we still do to an extent but it's different.) Now: did that one game change anything as far as players' abiities are concerned? I'm not sure about that.


Duncan
The year they fought the Pistons and were a miracle 3 away (from Horry , who else) of being sent home ringless that year. Duncan was neutralized by Rasheed. Actually, the Pistons were better in those games, they just managed to lose. Now Duncan has become this invincible superhero partly due to that Horry 3 pointer. Larry Brown remained ringless as a coach. Etc.


There are lots and lots of other examples.


Here comes the question. Which of the following you think is true?

  1. These games were more meaningful than others, hence it is understandable the results are more heavily weighed in a player's career.
  2. It is disrespectful for players on the losing end. I mean, someone has to lose and these thing were so close. It is just wrong to be labelled anything based on a few bonces here and there.
  3. These players are becoming what they become due to exactly these types of situations. So for example for LeBron to be able to reach his full potential, he had to win in a situation like this, and he became a better player as a result.
  4. Other: ...............

TylerOO 12-31-2012 09:17 PM

Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make
 
Yep, LeBron had the whole world on his shoulders going into game 6 vs Boston. Crazy. If they lost, he would have been bashed horribly and his legacy would be tarnished forever. It would have been the last straw. But he came through like a beast and is a legend.

red1 12-31-2012 09:19 PM

Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make
 










































elementally morale 12-31-2012 09:20 PM

Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerOO
Yep, LeBron had the whole world on his shoulders going into game 6 vs Boston. Crazy. If they lost, he would have been bashed horribly and his legacy would be tarnished forever. It would have been the last straw. But he came through like a beast and is a legend.


I already knew that. The question is this: rightfully so? Either way. They somehow lose to the Celtics. Is LeBron a worse player now as a result? Did he become better due to them having won or was it onlly the perception that changed?

I'm not sure I can decide. Both answers sound plausible to me.

TylerOO 12-31-2012 09:21 PM

Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make
 

TylerOO 12-31-2012 09:23 PM

Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by elementally morale
I already knew that. The question is this: rightfully so? Either way. They somehow lose to the Celtics. Is LeBron a worse player now as a result? Did he become better due to them having won or was it onlly the perception that changed?

I'm not sure I can decide. Both answers sound plausible to me.


I think that he's the same player, but his perception is definitely better. But at the same time his confidence is through the roof now and he is playing better because of it. So I think both answers are true, like you said. There's no right answer.

elementally morale 12-31-2012 09:27 PM

Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerOO
I think that he's the same player, but his perception is definitely better. But at the same time his confidence is through the roof now and he is playing better because of it. So I think both answers are true, like you said. There's no right answer.


Has Duncan become a better player after the Spurs beat the Pistons? Has Kobe become any better after that 2010 Finals? If anything, it was Garnett's big loss. He would have a reputation of a winner now, had Boston won that title.

Would Steve Nash be a better player if not for Horry's hipcheck that game?

TylerOO 12-31-2012 09:31 PM

Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by elementally morale
Has Duncan become a better player after the Spurs beat the Pistons? Has Kobe become any better after that 2010 Finals? If anything, it was Garnett's big loss. He would have a reputation of a winner now, had Boston won that title.

Would Steve Nash be a better player if not for Horry's hipcheck that game?


Do you mean literally become a better player? Or the perception? I think they were all the same players, but the perception is much better. A Ring really makes you that much better in peoples eyes. If Nash had a ring he would without a doubt be looked at much better than he is now.

EDIT: Ex.. All rational basketball fans can agree that LeBron is the best player in the game. If Durant wins a ring this year, come preseason next year, it will be back to a debate just because Durant got that ring.

red1 12-31-2012 09:31 PM

Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerOO

When pierce hit that clutch-ass three the game before I was legitimately starting to feel bad for lebron. Two of my boys are celtic bandwagoners and one of my other boys is a heat bandwagoner. The two celtic fans were clowning my boy and were talking so much shit it was unbelievable. By the time game 6 started I was praying the heat would beat the celtics just so I wouldnt have to hear that shit for the whole summer. That whole game I was laughing so hard, I couldnt believe what I was seeing. It was like a gift from god and I still crack up thinking about it

TylerOO 12-31-2012 09:34 PM

Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by red1
When pierce hit that clutch-ass three the game before I was legitimately starting to feel bad for lebron. Two of my boys are celtic bandwagoners and one of my other boys is a heat bandwagoner. The two celtic fans were clowning my boy and were talking so much shit it was unbelievable. By the time game 6 started I was praying the heat would beat the celtics just so I wouldnt have to hear that shit for the whole summer. That whole game I was laughing so hard, I couldnt believe what I was seeing. It was like a gift from god and I still crack up thinking about it


I remember watching that Pierce shot. My stomach sank, I couldn't believe he hit that. I was starting to think of what was gonna happen WHEN the heat lost the series. I didn't think they'd go into Boston and win. But once game 6 started and LeBron hit his first couple shots, I knew we were about to see some crazy shit :lol

Rubio2Gasol 12-31-2012 09:37 PM

Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by elementally morale
LeBron
Last year the Heat were down in their series vs. the Celtics. LeBron's stock was at an all-time low. Remember this: "Good job, good effort!"? Then they won the last two games against an ailing Boston team and went on to win the Finals. LeBron's stock is at an all-time high as a result. Imagine they lose to the Celtics. We wouldn't have all these articles praising James. Instead, we would hear 24/7 what a loser he is. OK, those few games changed the perception. But did they also change the player?


Kobe
The 2010 Finals vs. the Celtics. Artest and Gasol won that game 7. Kobe didn't deliver that day. Sure, he delivered many times before. Sure, him being Kobe made life easier for others due to defensive schemes. Still, they could easily have lost that game and the championship. Had that happened, we would hear how Kobe is unable to get it done. (OK, we still do to an extent but it's different.) Now: did that one game change anything as far as players' abiities are concerned? I'm not sure about that.


Duncan
The year they fought the Pistons and were a miracle 3 away (from Horry , who else) of being sent home ringless that year. Duncan was neutralized by Rasheed. Actually, the Pistons were better in those games, they just managed to lose. Now Duncan has become this invincible superhero partly due to that Horry 3 pointer. Larry Brown remained ringless as a coach. Etc.


There are lots and lots of other examples.


Here comes the question. Which of the following you think is true?

  1. These games were more meaningful than others, hence it is understandable the results are more heavily weighed in a player's career.
  2. It is disrespectful for players on the losing end. I mean, someone has to lose and these thing were so close. It is just wrong to be labelled anything based on a few bonces here and there.
  3. These players are becoming what they become due to exactly these types of situations. So for example for LeBron to be able to reach his full potential, he had to win in a situation like this, and he became a better player as a result.
  4. Other: ...............


On Lebron:

Situations like that are more common than you'd think. If you remember the Portland game, I think that's a game that completely changed Kobe forever. In Lebron's case it gave him the confidence to go on and push through the finals playing the game with the right mindset. Not settling, pretending to be a pick and roll point guard - that's honestly the best ball I've ever seen him play.

He's reverted to his old ways now , So I have to wait and see if he's just cruising or if that was just temporary.

On Duncan:

He had success early and he was never under that kind of pressure. Smaller market and less hype , and his personality was never enough to put him in the same category as Kobe or Lebron.

If Duncan doesn't win all that changes is he has 3 instead of 4...nothing about his legacy really changes.

People never really question Duncan to the same extent they never really prop him up. He's plateaued at this "best power forward in history" slot (I don't buy that for a minute lol - but even so I just don't really feel like fighting it down).

So I think his situation is differet.

He loses - he comes back and tries to win the next year- that's it.

LikeABosh 12-31-2012 09:40 PM

Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make
 
I don't even wanna know what this place would be like if the Heat lost that game 6 in Boston

elementally morale 12-31-2012 09:45 PM

Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LikeABosh
I don't even wanna know what this place would be like if the Heat lost that game 6 in Boston




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SMUP...e_gdata_player

jlip 12-31-2012 10:00 PM

Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make
 
While it was obviously on a different level I remember in the post game interview after Roy Williams won his first national championship coaching North Carolina after failing to do so with Kansas all those years, he responded by saying something like, "I'm the same coach I was 3 hours ago before we won this game."

red1 12-31-2012 10:03 PM

Re: The difference 1 or 2 games make
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by elementally morale

50% of the 2012 heat championship belongs to him


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