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-   -   Start Earl Clark (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=287504)

kkinchen 01-16-2013 02:37 PM

Start Earl Clark
 
D'Antoni is planning on starting Pau when he comes back from his concussion. I totally disagree with this move. Pau has been soft all year, and has not been complementary to Howard at all.

Clark comes in and produces and shows that he is a perfect complement to Howard athletically and stylistically, and we are 2-0 with those two playing together. You don't mess up a good thing when you have it.

Pau needs to be the leader of that second unit. Starting him may be the popular thing to do but it is not the right thing to so. Clark fits perfectly with Howard.

Clark looks flat out superior to Pau in every aspect of offense and defense. He is our starter and the reason why we are once again the best team in the NBA.

lakerfreak 01-16-2013 03:51 PM

Re: Start Earl Clark
 
I'll be fair and credit you here. You were the only one who thought this guy was going to make a pretty good impact for this team, and you were right. I'll give credit to where its due. Good call.

As far as starting, I am sure that all of us on here would agree that you start the person who plays hard and therefore produces the best of anyone else that are coming off the bench.

Here is a couple of problems with this though.

1) I don't feel as though Pau Gasol would stand for such a thing. He's been there longer than Earl Clark and has certainly accomplished much more in his career. To be honest with you, I consider Pau Gasol as our MVP of that second championship run. So I don't think he would stand for that, no matter how old he is. Thats why I believe trading him is something that HAS to be done, rather than it being only one of many options.

2) The second problem here is fire power. It was easy for D'Antoni to put Artest on the bench for a little and have him come off because he can be a "quick points" type of player. Pau Gasol on the other hand, is by no means in any sense of the word, a firepower type of guy. He gets most of his points from slow post ups, which have been limited for this team because we are currently a running team. He can sometimes hit the very lucky three point shot here and there, but it is not consistent to consider him a firepower player. He can't handle the ball better than a guard, therefore should not be someone who can create his own shot in a run n gun offense. Not only with this never fly with Pau, but in the end, even if he was okay with this, he would be much worse as a 6th man.

3) Earl Clark has become D'Antoni's new golden boy IMO. First he had Nash, then he had Jeremy Lin, and now he can probably safely add Earl Clark as his diamond in the rough so to speak. Dont worry kkinchen. If Earl Clark went back to the bench, I can probably bet you my life savings (about 200$) that Earl Clark would be in the rotation still, ahead of Ebanks, ahead of Morris, and Jamison, and those other guys. I also predict he will be solid now that he's sort of made a name for himself on this team, in this system.

DKLaker 01-16-2013 05:26 PM

Re: Start Earl Clark
 
I'm ok with it...in fact I would've started everyone else ahead of V@gi.......oops, I meant Pau :D

Big_Dogg 01-16-2013 09:26 PM

Re: Start Earl Clark
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lakerfreak
I'll be fair and credit you here. You were the only one who thought this guy was going to make a pretty good impact for this team, and you were right. I'll give credit to where its due. Good call.

As far as starting, I am sure that all of us on here would agree that you start the person who plays hard and therefore produces the best of anyone else that are coming off the bench.

Here is a couple of problems with this though.

1) I don't feel as though Pau Gasol would stand for such a thing. He's been there longer than Earl Clark and has certainly accomplished much more in his career. To be honest with you, I consider Pau Gasol as our MVP of that second championship run. So I don't think he would stand for that, no matter how old he is. Thats why I believe trading him is something that HAS to be done, rather than it being only one of many options.

2) The second problem here is fire power. It was easy for D'Antoni to put Artest on the bench for a little and have him come off because he can be a "quick points" type of player. Pau Gasol on the other hand, is by no means in any sense of the word, a firepower type of guy. He gets most of his points from slow post ups, which have been limited for this team because we are currently a running team. He can sometimes hit the very lucky three point shot here and there, but it is not consistent to consider him a firepower player. He can't handle the ball better than a guard, therefore should not be someone who can create his own shot in a run n gun offense. Not only with this never fly with Pau, but in the end, even if he was okay with this, he would be much worse as a 6th man.

3) Earl Clark has become D'Antoni's new golden boy IMO. First he had Nash, then he had Jeremy Lin, and now he can probably safely add Earl Clark as his diamond in the rough so to speak. Dont worry kkinchen. If Earl Clark went back to the bench, I can probably bet you my life savings (about 200$) that Earl Clark would be in the rotation still, ahead of Ebanks, ahead of Morris, and Jamison, and those other guys. I also predict he will be solid now that he's sort of made a name for himself on this team, in this system.


That's a fair assessment lakerfreak, and while those points are highly valid, I do think that in the "team" environment, if Pau coming off the bench and anchoring the 2nd unit is going to make us more competitive and get us more wins, regardless of how long he has been here or how much he gets paid he should be open to it as a professional and team player.

If Clark starts, for one, it makes us a little more athletic transition wise, faster defensively and will provide much better floor spacing in the beginning of a game, therefore allowing us to potentially control the tempo of the game and allow Dwight space to establish himself on the low post early, probably then engaging him more in the game and creating interest from him offesively as well as defensively.

With Hill now gone, Pau can then play the low block with the 2nd unit and occasionally play in tandem with Howard depending on matchups, this will probably allow him more low post looks and pick and roll options with him being the only real big on court at the time, I'm sure Nash will be playing a bit with the 2nd unit as well to control the game tempo so I think there is more flexibility for Pau this way.

I really do think there is merit in Clark starting and Gasol having his role changed a little for the benefit of the team, but again, this is just my opinion, I'm happy to be proven wrong but after viewing the few games since Pau has been out with concussion, I agree with kkinchen and think we should continue on as we are as we seem to have momentum behind us.

Nothing else has worked for us so far so we may as well throw caution to the wind and go with what has been working for us, that's just my view anyway.

lakerfreak 01-17-2013 04:05 AM

Re: Start Earl Clark
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Dogg
That's a fair assessment lakerfreak, and while those points are highly valid, I do think that in the "team" environment, if Pau coming off the bench and anchoring the 2nd unit is going to make us more competitive and get us more wins, regardless of how long he has been here or how much he gets paid he should be open to it as a professional and team player.

If Clark starts, for one, it makes us a little more athletic transition wise, faster defensively and will provide much better floor spacing in the beginning of a game, therefore allowing us to potentially control the tempo of the game and allow Dwight space to establish himself on the low post early, probably then engaging him more in the game and creating interest from him offesively as well as defensively.

With Hill now gone, Pau can then play the low block with the 2nd unit and occasionally play in tandem with Howard depending on matchups, this will probably allow him more low post looks and pick and roll options with him being the only real big on court at the time, I'm sure Nash will be playing a bit with the 2nd unit as well to control the game tempo so I think there is more flexibility for Pau this way.

I really do think there is merit in Clark starting and Gasol having his role changed a little for the benefit of the team, but again, this is just my opinion, I'm happy to be proven wrong but after viewing the few games since Pau has been out with concussion, I agree with kkinchen and think we should continue on as we are as we seem to have momentum behind us.

Nothing else has worked for us so far so we may as well throw caution to the wind and go with what has been working for us, that's just my view anyway.


After reading this, I would concur under the condition of how Pau could contribute coming off the bench. If we are relying on him to be a quick points type of guy, it wont work. If he is coming off the bench however to be a facilitator for these other good shooters, and will grab rebounds and other wonderful things, then yes it could possibly work.

I think we can both agree that Clark will come in and do well whether he starts or comes off the bench. His style of play is always the same regardless of who is on the court with him. He reminds me of a trevor ariza with a consistent jump-shot.

But going back to Pau Gasol here, we have all seen D'Antoni maintain the same style of coaching whether we struggled or not. In that scenario in my humble opinion, Pau Gasol will always want what he cannot have consistently. A good 10 plays a game where he can post up. I don't see him getting that opportunity. His great passing also comes from post play. If D'Antoni won't alter his style just a little bit, I don't see any way that Gasol can be an "OK" fit even. Not unless he masters a jumpshot. But hey, who aside from Kobe has ever improved their game during this stage in their careers?

kkinchen 01-17-2013 04:52 PM

Re: Start Earl Clark
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lakerfreak
After reading this, I would concur under the condition of how Pau could contribute coming off the bench. If we are relying on him to be a quick points type of guy, it wont work. If he is coming off the bench however to be a facilitator for these other good shooters, and will grab rebounds and other wonderful things, then yes it could possibly work.

I think we can both agree that Clark will come in and do well whether he starts or comes off the bench. His style of play is always the same regardless of who is on the court with him. He reminds me of a trevor ariza with a consistent jump-shot.

But going back to Pau Gasol here, we have all seen D'Antoni maintain the same style of coaching whether we struggled or not. In that scenario in my humble opinion, Pau Gasol will always want what he cannot have consistently. A good 10 plays a game where he can post up. I don't see him getting that opportunity. His great passing also comes from post play. If D'Antoni won't alter his style just a little bit, I don't see any way that Gasol can be an "OK" fit even. Not unless he masters a jumpshot. But hey, who aside from Kobe has ever improved their game during this stage in their careers?



It will work. Pau and Jamison complement each others game just as Clark and Howard complement each others games.

Nash/Blake/Duhon
Bryant/Morris/Meeks
Metta/Ebanks
Clark/Jamison
Howard/Gasol/Sacre

We'll finally have a consistent bench with Pau leading that second unit.

magicmanfan 01-17-2013 05:55 PM

Re: Start Earl Clark
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kkinchen
It will work. Pau and Jamison complement each others game just as Clark and Howard complement each others games.

Nash/Blake/Duhon
Bryant/Morris/Meeks
Metta/Ebanks
Clark/Jamison
Howard/Gasol/Sacre

We'll finally have a consistent bench with Pau leading that second unit.



I think you have to trade Pau or start him... As backup C, he won't be happy
and we gotta have everyone on the same page...

insidehoops 01-22-2013 10:37 AM

Re: Start Earl Clark
 
Lakers forward Earl Clark was back in the starting lineup Monday against the Bulls, and from the sound of it, he could become a permanent fixture. Prior to the game, coach Mike D’Antoni told reporters that Clark would be his starting power forward moving forward, with Pau Gasol moving to the bench. Clark scored 12 points in the game, on 6 of 13 shooting, while snagging eight rebounds. He added a pair of blocks in 35 minutes, in a 95-83 loss.

Analysis: It looks like Clark might actually get the lion’s share of the minutes as the Lakers’ starting power forward, as he saw nine more minutes than Gasol. Clark has gone from playing a very limited role to starter in only a few weeks’ time, and he might end up sticking in this role. We will need to see how the Lakers use Clark, but he is averaging 9.8 points and 9.8 rebounds per game over the last five, with 3.0 assists in 30.8 minutes. Clark is worth picking up in most deeper Fantasy formats at this time.

-- CBS Sports


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