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-   -   Phil Jackson thoughts on Dwight Howard & Lakers (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=291542)

kobesabi 02-23-2013 03:51 AM

Phil Jackson thoughts on Dwight Howard & Lakers
 
Quote:

Jackson: They just don't put the ball in the post. They'll use a screen-roll to get the guy in the post. But there's no consistent plan to do it. Yes, Kobe will go in there. But Dwight [Howard] just doesn't get any touches. They've basically eliminated his assets.
SI: But wouldn't his assets be rolling off the screen-roll, with either [Steve] Nash or Kobe?
Jackson: You want the ball 10 feet away from the basket. Throw it into the post, make them double-team and have everybody around to make shots. That's what Shaq could do. That's where you have the Robert Horrys, the Derek Fishers and the Rick Foxes sitting out there getting wide-open jumpers.
SI: But Dwight is not Shaq in that aspect of the game, drawing the double team and finding people. Isn't that true?
Jackson: I think he can be. But he is not where he needs to be physically because of the back surgery. He needs a year to recover from something like that. He's starting to come around, but he has a massive upper body to carry around. He's a terrific athlete, but he still has to get all that back. He's looking better all the time, but his problem right now is turnovers. He's got to have a little better recognition, and that will help him gain the confidence of his teammates and coach, which he does not have now.

I wonder if these are PJax tips for D'Antoni

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...hRuXcATC5NbK5_

DKLaker 02-23-2013 06:10 PM

Re: Phil Jackson thoughts on Dwight Howard & Lakers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kobesabi
I wonder if these are PJax tips for D'Antoni

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...hRuXcATC5NbK5_


Common sense basketball stuff........unfortunately we have a coach who doesn't care about the fundamentals of the game. :banghead: :banghead:

takai 02-24-2013 05:38 PM

Re: Phil Jackson thoughts on Dwight Howard & Lakers
 
We should've went with Phil :facepalm

$LakerGold 02-24-2013 11:43 PM

Re: Phil Jackson thoughts on Dwight Howard & Lakers
 
I've Said This So Many Times .... Phil's System Would've Been Great For This Roster. Omg.

lakerfreak 02-25-2013 12:16 AM

Re: Phil Jackson thoughts on Dwight Howard & Lakers
 
This question has always been in the back of my head, and I've wondered if others thought this as well.

Is this a case of "its either Nash or Howard" ?

I'm seeing it like this. Phil Jackson and his system nixes Steve Nash's style of play, because he wouldn't get the ball as much as he is used to handling it. Once he does get the ball in a system like the triangle, he does not have as much freedom as he had on other teams to do what he can with the rock.

With D'Antoni, so much emphasis is put on how the guards control the floor, and as a result, they may or they may not choose to pass in the post. They pass in the post when it is more convenient for them to do so (i.e. if Dwight gets an open dunk out of it).

Has anyone else ever thought that perhaps you cannot build on Nash and Dwight because of how much they both need the ball to be effective offensively?

DKLaker 02-25-2013 11:55 AM

Re: Phil Jackson thoughts on Dwight Howard & Lakers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lakerfreak
This question has always been in the back of my head, and I've wondered if others thought this as well.

Is this a case of "its either Nash or Howard" ?

I'm seeing it like this. Phil Jackson and his system nixes Steve Nash's style of play, because he wouldn't get the ball as much as he is used to handling it. Once he does get the ball in a system like the triangle, he does not have as much freedom as he had on other teams to do what he can with the rock.

With D'Antoni, so much emphasis is put on how the guards control the floor, and as a result, they may or they may not choose to pass in the post. They pass in the post when it is more convenient for them to do so (i.e. if Dwight gets an open dunk out of it).

Has anyone else ever thought that perhaps you cannot build on Nash and Dwight because of how much they both need the ball to be effective offensively?


At his age, Phil Jackson would have been the better coach for Steve Nash, this is not the young, fly down the court 14 assist per game Nash, this is the slower, fundamental decision making, game manager, selective shot Nash.
You don't have to race down court in order to make a great pass.

I completely disagree with anyone who says Nash wouldn't thrive under Phil.

A good coach will get the players to the right spots and right situations to make them and the team successful......we don't have a good coach.

takai 02-25-2013 12:50 PM

Re: Phil Jackson thoughts on Dwight Howard & Lakers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DKLaker
At his age, Phil Jackson would have been the better coach for Steve Nash, this is not the young, fly down the court 14 assist per game Nash, this is the slower, fundamental decision making, game manager, selective shot Nash.
You don't have to race down court in order to make a great pass.

I completely disagree with anyone who says Nash wouldn't thrive under Phil.

A good coach will get the players to the right spots and right situations to make them and the team successful......we don't have a good coach.

Exactly. I think Nash and Howard could be a fantastic and even scary combination if implemented properly. We've seen quite a few nice picks and rolls, etc, from them. It just needs a little work, and a better coach.

dd24 02-25-2013 05:40 PM

Re: Phil Jackson thoughts on Dwight Howard & Lakers
 
I disagree with anyone who thinks Phil wouldn't use Nash correctly. It's not like he's really even being used by 'antoni right now. He's getting less touches than he ever has in his career. His age is definitely starting to show. I think Phil would work to what Nash can still do, and I also think the triangle would get him his fair share of open jumpers to knock down.

bladefd 02-25-2013 08:38 PM

Re: Phil Jackson thoughts on Dwight Howard & Lakers
 
The issue to some degree is that Kobe, Artest, Gasol throw a monkey-wrench into the equation in this Nash AND/OR Dwight discussion.

Let me explain.. Back in Suns days, Nash had to feed one guy in Amare in the paint while the other sharpshooters just stood around the perimeter. Kobe/Artest are no sharpshooters, but you know they are a big part of this team. Nash has to give the rock to Kobe for long stretches so you don't quite get to see Nash average 12-13-14 assists per game anymore because he is not in the position to do it anymore. Gasol also got in the way of Dwight for long periods on the court - look at Dwight putting up great stats with Gasol out of the lineup.

If you had just Nash and just Dwight with 2 other role-player sharpshooters on the perimeter in D'antoni's system, Nash would STILL average 13-14 assists per game and Dwight would put up better stats than his Magic days with a star PG running the system as opposed to a jameer nelson. I think it would work out perfectly fine with Nash AND Dwight. Of course, this team wouldn't be a contender for championship without Kobe, just a great regular season team.


As for Phil vs D'antoni issue.. I think DKLaker/takai/dd24 are right. Just one point though - I don't think Phil would ever coach this team if there was no Kobe and just Nash/Dwight/bunch of role-players. It just wouldn't happen so forget about stats or w/e. Phil wouldn't accept it, he cares only about championships. :confusedshrug:

dd24 02-25-2013 08:41 PM

Re: Phil Jackson thoughts on Dwight Howard & Lakers
 
There's no doubt about it, if Kobe wasn't part of the team Phil wouldn't be back for just Nash & Howard. That's not a contender. Phil will only coach a true contender at this point. I can't imagine he'd want to coach a team that was just going to lose in the first round.

Sure if there's less superstars on a team, their stats go up. There's going to be a dip in stats when people team up like that. I think it's more about how they're being used than what the numbers look like though. One good example is I don't like how and when Dwight gets the ball a lot of times. I like what Phil mentioned in that article on how else Dwight could be used.

bladefd 02-25-2013 08:54 PM

Re: Phil Jackson thoughts on Dwight Howard & Lakers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dd24
Sure if there's less superstars on a team, their stats go up. There's going to be a dip in stats when people team up like that. I think it's more about how they're being used than what the numbers look like though. One good example is I don't like how and when Dwight gets the ball a lot of times. I like what Phil mentioned in that article on how else Dwight could be used.


Maybe I was looking at it too much from statistics aspect. Stats is not always a good representative of things happening behind the curtain - stats is only half the story. You're right from that perspective.

DKLaker 02-25-2013 11:26 PM

Re: Phil Jackson thoughts on Dwight Howard & Lakers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dd24
There's no doubt about it, if Kobe wasn't part of the team Phil wouldn't be back for just Nash & Howard. That's not a contender. Phil will only coach a true contender at this point. I can't imagine he'd want to coach a team that was just going to lose in the first round.

Sure if there's less superstars on a team, their stats go up. There's going to be a dip in stats when people team up like that. I think it's more about how they're being used than what the numbers look like though. One good example is I don't like how and when Dwight gets the ball a lot of times. I like what Phil mentioned in that article on how else Dwight could be used.


Right, touches don't mean crap if you're getting the ball in the wrong spot at the wrong time.

takai 02-26-2013 11:12 AM

Re: Phil Jackson thoughts on Dwight Howard & Lakers
 
I bet it was more of an ego thing when choosing D'Antoni over Phil. I bet Kupchak didn't want it to seem like when can't win a championship without him.

bladefd 02-27-2013 01:18 AM

Re: Phil Jackson thoughts on Dwight Howard & Lakers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by takai
I bet it was more of an ego thing when choosing D'Antoni over Phil. I bet Kupchak didn't want it to seem like when can't win a championship without him.


I don't think it was Kupchak. I think Kupchak wanted Phil Jackson. Stephen A Smith on ESPN radio asked Kupchak on the phone last week why they passed up Phil to get D'Antoni. Kupchak didn't say anything for 2 whole awkward seconds and then said "We felt it was the right choice" and then he wouldn't say much else. The break and then the very short reply without even mentioning why D'Antoni was better choice over Phil made me believe that Kupchak did not want D'Antoni OVER Phil Jackson and is still slightly troubled by it.

I don't know if he had an argument with Jimmy Buss, but whatever it may be, he seemed to be careful searching for words that would not damage the Lakers organization image.

Big_Dogg 02-27-2013 02:06 AM

Re: Phil Jackson thoughts on Dwight Howard & Lakers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bladefd
I don't think it was Kupchak. I think Kupchak wanted Phil Jackson. Stephen A Smith on ESPN radio asked Kupchak on the phone last week why they passed up Phil to get D'Antoni. Kupchak didn't say anything for 2 whole awkward seconds and then said "We felt it was the right choice" and then he wouldn't say much else. The break and then the very short reply without even mentioning why D'Antoni was better choice over Phil made me believe that Kupchak did not want D'Antoni OVER Phil Jackson and is still slightly troubled by it.

I don't know if he had an argument with Jimmy Buss, but whatever it may be, he seemed to be careful searching for words that would not damage the Lakers organization image.


If I were a betting man, this is what I would put money on as the most believable scenario


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