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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=LJJ]Which is why you "got it" only after people mentioned it and completely failed to properly assert it on your own iniation.[/QUOTE]
Good try but not the case.
I never gave a detailed insightful analysis of the show. I just gave a rant on some of the things that popped into mind at the moment.
Or should I have given a literary critique on the show touching on every single theme, character, storyline structure, arc, with a dramatic timeline graph ranging 2-3 pages long?
And suppose I didn't get it, and now the insightful analysis from posters opened up another door
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=andgar923]Good try but not the case.
I never gave a detailed insightful analysis of the show. I just gave a rant on some of the things that popped into mind at the moment.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, iniatially your main criticism of the show was "uuh guy looks like a Lesbian, am I rite? hurr durr". In other words, typical andgar shit.
Then you started going on a small, nonsensical rant about how characters were cliches which showed you simply didn't get the show.
If what you said made sense and you actually did understand the show and provided valid criticism, then why is no one agreeing with you? Or even arguing with you based on the merits of your argument? Oh, because everybody is your "hater" and is "personally attacking" you?! Keep thinking that the problem is the rest of the world and not you man, you are a misunderstood genius!
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=andgar923]People are forgetting OZ in this thread and in general.[/QUOTE]
Oz went to shit once Adibese was killed.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
may not, in fact, be the GOAT drama. depends on your perspective, and your preference.
but your logic (e.g., "thus= overrated") is dumb.
but sleep if you want. sweet dreams.
[IMG]http://www.blogcdn.com/www.comicsalliance.com/media/2010/10/50818250850e6e70457do.jpg[/IMG]
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=johndeeregreen]You're right for the most part, but if you think David Simon's experiences were limited to the journalistic aspect of it you need to read his book "Homicide."[/QUOTE]
Yeah. I have. I read The Corner that both of them did too. I believe writing Homicide is where he first met Ed Burns.
It's also a tribute to Simon's instincts as a writer that he would want to hook up with Ed Burns because he's
A. Great source material
B. An incredibly unusual cop
Simon also had the instinct that Burns could turn into a screenwriter as well. He basically just gave him some scripts and said make it like those. Simon also to his credit wanted to work with great fiction writers like Richard Price and Dennis Lehane.
It's a tribute to Simon as a producer that he built the series with Burns and it's not a dis to Simon to say the show wouldn't have been what it was without Burns.
Also it fairness, to Simon cops and teachers lend themselves better to drama than newspaper writers.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=Reef]Oz went to shit once Adibese was killed.[/QUOTE]
It lost a ton of momentum, thats for sure. The storylines also got pretty bad
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=LJJ]Yes, iniatially your main criticism of the show was "uuh guy looks like a Lesbian, am I rite? hurr durr". In other words, typical andgar shit.
Then you started going on a small, nonsensical rant about how characters were cliches which showed you simply didn't get the show.
If what you said made sense and you actually did understand the show and provided valid criticism, then why is no one agreeing with you? Or even arguing with you based on the merits of your argument? Oh, because everybody is your "hater" and is "personally attacking" you?! Keep thinking that the problem is the rest of the world and not you man, you are a misunderstood genius![/QUOTE]
:roll:
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=andgar923]And to Jackass, you have a slight point. But there's been other shows that I've seen that met or surpassed the hype.[/quote]
But that level of hype? 'Monumental, GOAT' level hype? That seems like the level of hype where you go in looking to nitpick things because you don't believe it could possibly be that good. Almost like you want it to fail maybe because you didn't experience it when it first came out and you don't want to be a latecomer to the party. It can be difficult to detach yourself from a high level of hype. I've just seen so many people come away disappointed with something when they go into it thinking it's supposed to be perfection. And well, your posts in this thread make it seem like you're rebelling against it and are biased against it.
I'd say to give it a chance. It's certainly worth it. I don't have HBO so I haven't seen Game of Thrones, so I don't have an opinion on that, but I have heard the hype for it.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=Jackass18]But that level of hype? 'Monumental, GOAT' level hype? That seems like the level of hype where you go in looking to nitpick things because you don't believe it could possibly be that good. Almost like you want it to fail maybe because you didn't experience it when it first came out and you don't want to be a latecomer to the party. It can be difficult to detach yourself from a high level of hype. I've just seen so many people come away disappointed with something when they go into it thinking it's supposed to be perfection. And well, your posts in this thread make it seem like you're rebelling against it and are biased against it.
I'd say to give it a chance. It's certainly worth it. I don't have HBO so I haven't seen Game of Thrones, so I don't have an opinion on that, but I have heard the hype for it.[/QUOTE]
This would be true, but I've loved plenty of shows that were hyped as much. Maybe I didn't think they were the GOAT show, but I'm apprehensive on calling most shows that no matter how much I love them.
Good show, not GOAT. Not better than Sopranos (which I'm not a huge fan of either). Sopranos moved very slowly, Wire is much faster compared to Sopranos. But I can appreciate Sopranos' quality. Although many will disagree, OZ was not only more 'entertaining', but on par as far as quality.
People get too hung up on "depth and meaning" without realizing that it ultimately has to be entertaining. OZ does a great job at both, Wire isn't as captivating edge of your seats, at least for me it wasn't. I wasn't as anxious to watch the next episode as I was other shows. I wasn't awed by the brilliant acting or scenes. It moved methodically, never too fast, never too slow, very even. Their faithful reproduction of gritty realism also caused it to feel like a doc instead of a crime-drama at times. Yes it is nice to make it an honest real life representation, but shit, make it a bit fun more frequently. As slow as Sopranos was, when they went hard they got your attention. Those f*ckers grabbed you by the balls and pulled you in. Dr Melfi and Tony talking in her office was just as captivating as some of the action scenes. Those scenes almost always delivered, brilliantly written, directed, shot, acted, they made you sit up and notice, at times stopped you dead in your tracks. Wire has those in much smaller quantities if at all in some episodes (again
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
Andgar, the show starts pretty slow so if you wanted some type of action right away i can understand why you might not like it.
This show focuses mainly on building the characters and managed to do it like no other show in my opinion. You talk about cliche lines and characters. Its nothing of that sort. The characters are "real" and complex, This show is amazing because it managed to create A LOT of great in depth personalities.
Literally every portrait is amazingly created. The scenes in the show are "real". The thoughts of the average drug dealer are illustrated in a unique fashion. Take for example the "chess" lesson D'angelo gave to the little drug dealers and how it resembles the drug world. Take Bunk using a xerox machine as a lie detector on a young uneducated kid to make him confess a murder. Take Omar and his understanding of "the game". Take Prop Joe trying to civilize Marlo. When Marlo came to kill him, Joe said "i treated you like a child" to which Marlo replied something along the lines of "im not that kind of child".
This show is viewed as Goat because it managed to be so complex (reaching most of Baltimore's problems) and having such amazing characters. Literally every character has its role in the show and the writing and dialog are elite.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=FPJ]Andgar, the show starts pretty slow so if you wanted some type of action right away i can understand why you might not like it.
This show focuses mainly on building the characters and managed to do it like no other show in my opinion. You talk about cliche lines and characters. Its nothing of that sort. The characters are "real" and complex, This show is amazing because it managed to create A LOT of great in depth personalities.
Literally every portrait is amazingly created. The scenes in the show are "real". The thoughts of the average drug dealer are illustrated in a unique fashion. Take for example the "chess" lesson D'angelo gave to the little drug dealers and how it resembles the drug world. Take Bunk using a xerox machine as a lie detector on a young uneducated kid to make him confess a murder. Take Omar and his understanding of "the game". Take Prop Joe trying to civilize Marlo. When Marlo came to kill him, Joe said "i treated you like a child" to which Marlo replied something along the lines of "im not that kind of child".
This show is viewed as Goat because it managed to be so complex (reaching most of Baltimore's problems) and having such amazing characters. Literally every character has its role in the show and the writing and dialog are elite.[/QUOTE]
Sopranos is slower, pacing isn't the problem.
Other shows have great writing and everything you wanna claim Wire has, I think people are forgetting some of those shows.
Again… good show, but not GOAT
Also, no actor in any scene made me go "That's some Emmy shit right there!!!" It was a true ensemble piece, with nobody dominating or standing out. Again, very methodical calculated I'm sure. I'm sure they don't want the show to become about a specific character but the group as a whole, and that's admirable. Every character plays their role fine, although I never bought D'angelo… nope. Still looks like a dyke to me, never bought his scenes. Avon and Springer in the first season were very muted, rarely saw them, rarely convinced me. I've seen both of the actor's work outside of Wire, naturally my man Idris in Luther is awesome, Avon was Hendrix, but I didn't see them at their best. All very subtle and muted. Not that they have to be bombastic characters, but give the actors some scenes man. D'angelo got some great scenes handed to him, but I never bought him. There's other actors that would've killed that role. Bubbles was great tho, stole most scenes he was in imo. Bunk was great as well, dude's nuances and approach are on point. That's just off the top, but as much as I liked them none are Emmy caliber.
The chess lesson I saw coming a mile away. The chess metaphor is used often.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=andgar923]Sopranos is slower, pacing isn't the problem.
Other shows have great writing and everything you wanna claim Wire has, I think people are forgetting some of those shows.
Again
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
It should be a sin to say there is a show better than The Sopranos in all honesty. Like I said, The Wire is a great, great show. But I don't think it has anything on The Sopranos. Literally, nothing. The 5th season of The Sopranos is better than the 3rd and 4th seasons of The Wire combined together.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
i was a huge wire fan before i saw the sopranos. i still love the wire but i think the sopranos is better i have about 8 episodes of sopranos to watch til i finish never been so sad about a show ending lol. plus med soprano could get the D.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
Lol Andgar you're such a complete and utter moron. Give them some scenes man! Maybe you should, you know, watch the show to see their scenes? Avon comes out in season 3, what you think happens? He lived happily ever after and they rode the character into the Baltimore sunset? Watch the Fukkin show you imbecile, before making the most senseless criticisms I've ever read. Here's a couple more criticisms you can make after seeing less than half the show "I don't like how the show concludes." or how about "I wish they would have made more seasons to fully finish the story arc." You fkin dummy.
I hope you cut your foot on your iPad charger and it gets infected and oozes puss for the next 3 months.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
Seasons 3 and 4 of the wire are as good as anything ever on tv. Seasons 1 and 2 are probably top 90%. 5...top 80.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
I saw The Sopranos first, then saw The Wire years later, and The Sopranos feels like a cartoon comedy in comparison.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=Loneshot]I saw The Sopranos first, then saw The Wire years later, and The Sopranos feels like a cartoon comedy in comparison.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, by end of the Wire Omar had become Batman in West Baltimore, jumping out of buildings with his flowing trench coat cape and shit:oldlol:
And let's not forget characters like these:
[IMG]http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llw0y7alA21qcjzcm.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wwM3s4JFNVs/TzTIR59LHuI/AAAAAAAABSo/pNI8hLViiGw/s1600/Ziggy+Sobotka.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://thejasminebrand.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/snoop-pearson.jpg[/IMG]
And the Sopranos was meant to be an absurdist comedy as well as a drama, and they never had any characters as comical and ridiculous as the above :oldlol:
Anyway, Season 4 of the Wire is up there for best season ever of any television show. I think all the ambitions that the creators set out with were fully realized that Season. The second season was eh, pissed me off that they wasted an entire run on characters I never really cared about and relegated the first season roster to background players. Season 3 got back to the first's groove, and season 5 went ahead and f*cked the whole thing up.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Seasons 3 and 4 of the wire are as good as anything ever on tv. Seasons 1 and 2 are probably top 90%. 5...top 80.[/QUOTE]
the best season of The Wire is maybe as good as the 3rd best season of The Sopranos
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]the best season of The Wire is maybe as good as the 3rd best season of The Sopranos[/QUOTE]
You're overrating the Sopranos the same exact way you are saying everyone in here is overrating the Wire
Season 3 or 4 is only as good as the Sopranos 3rd best season? get the fvck out of here.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=andgar923]Sopranos is slower, pacing isn't the problem.
Also, no actor in any scene made me go "That's some Emmy shit right there!!!" [/QUOTE]
I couldn't disagree more.
The acting was one of the best part of the series. No other TV show/movie made me hate a character as much as I hated Clay Davis/Carcetti/Burrell/Rawls. I've never felt so much compassion as I did for Bubbles. Or for scumbags such as Avon or Bodie.
I'm actually kind of upset whenever I see any actors from the Wire in anything else because I forget they're just actors.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=DonDadda59]The second season was eh, pissed me off that they wasted an entire run on characters I never really cared about and relegated the first season roster to background players. [/QUOTE]
The second season shows the supply side of Avon's drug empire. The union workers smuggling the chemicals and other materials needed. Every aspect of the show relates
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
The Wire is a great show that should be viewed by every American, it's a great look into the police department, the streets, the education system, politics, & media. But it's also a show that hasn't aged well, The Sopranos will be more well known 10-20 years from now than a show like The Wire. The Sopranos was the first show that made you feel like you were watching a movie in every episode, and I love how we got a chance to get into Tony Soprano's head every time he visited his shrink, it was a genius idea to involve a psychiatrist on the show.
I also liked how Tony never banged Dr. Melfi, it would have been very typical and predictable if he did.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=andgar923]it's fair that people are shitting on me for dismissing it after the 1st season.
But other shows grabbed me by the 1st season and I was hooked!!![/QUOTE]
It just strikes me as odd seeing someone so dismissive of The Wire. Threads about it always make me want to go back and watch it again. You didn't connect with any of the characters? McNulty, Bunk, Freamon, Stringer Bell, Bodie, Clay Davis, etc...?
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
I still laugh when people try to say The Wire had better acting. GTFO of here :oldlol:
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=Jackass18]It just strikes me as odd seeing someone so dismissive of The Wire. Threads about it always make me want to go back and watch it again. You didn't connect with any of the characters? McNulty, Bunk, Freamon, Stringer Bell, Bodie, Clay Davis, etc...?[/QUOTE]
Connect in which way?
Like I mentioned, I only saw season 1 and the characters that got the most screen time (that you mentioned) were McNulty which I didn't care about. Everytime they showed his personal life I could care less. Bunk was one of my fav characters cause the actor playing him did his thing. Bodie was one of the most believable characters on the show, but the actor playing him often plays these roles often. I wanted to see more Bell but his character in the first season was limited.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPp9CQjKEQw[/url]
As I mentioned before, Bubbles was easily my fav.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
also the ring little story line in the wire. omar took it from marlo at a card game, the cop took it from omar then michael took it from the cop. marlo asks mike where he got it from and he said "took it from some *****" marlo thought mike took it from omar, which immediately made marlo respect mike more.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=DonDadda59]And let's not forget characters like these[/QUOTE]
I can kinda see your point about Ziggy, but what do you got against Snoop man? I thought she was great.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=andgar923]Connect in which way?[/quote]
Being interesting in, want to see more of, and whatnot.
[quote]As I mentioned before, Bubbles was easily my fav.[/QUOTE]
I don't remember my opinion from just season 1, but from watching the whole thing I didn't like Bubbles. McNulty, Bunk, and Stringer Bell were my 3 favs from that show. What about Omar? I think he was the fav of many, but I found him overrated.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=LJJ]Solid thread this has become.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/NwgJPgC.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
haha needs to be repeated. Here's a well written 2004 review on this show. [I]I must agree with my fellow ishtards[/I]. this show is great, I mean consider its pedigree. Someone already mention that writer david simon wrote this tv drama/documentary with former Baltimore detetive Ed Burns...when i watch the wire, it did feel like a documentary (in the truest sense of the word). -sprinkled with some funny moments of levity here and there.
It doesnt follow a follow hollywood convention. If that's what you're looking for , you won't find it here.
[B][I]oh[/I][/B] and the review that i mentioned [url]http://ca.ign.com/articles/2004/10/12/the-wire-the-complete-first-season[/url]
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=Goliath Uterus]That's based on an actual even tthat happened in the real Omar's life.... [/QUOTE]
Yeah... watch [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMa8e6VhnTs"]This (from 1 minute)[/URL] then watch [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MY26avVXIk"]This[/URL]
Tell me if you can spot the difference :oldlol:
[QUOTE]And how is Snoop ridiculous? That's pretty much how that girl acts in real life, shes not an unrealistic character by any means.[/QUOTE]
That's all and well, but it's pretty hard to believe that a 90 lb, 5'3 girl is going to be one of the most feared killers in a city. But stranger things have happened I suppose.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Yeah, by end of the Wire Omar had become Batman in West Baltimore, jumping out of buildings with his flowing trench coat cape and shit:oldlol:
[/QUOTE]
In real life, Omar actually survived a jump from the sixth floor rather than the 4th floor, so I don't see the problem.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Yeah... watch [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMa8e6VhnTs"]This (from 1 minute)[/URL] then watch [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MY26avVXIk"]This[/URL]
Tell me if you can spot the difference :oldlol:
That's all and well, but it's pretty hard to believe that a 90 lb, 5'3 girl is going to be one of the most feared killers in a city. But stranger things have happened I suppose.[/QUOTE]
She killed someone in real life when she was like 14 or something.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Yeah... watch [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMa8e6VhnTs"]This (from 1 minute)[/URL] then watch [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MY26avVXIk"]This[/URL]
That's all and well, but it's pretty hard to believe that a 90 lb, 5'3 girl is going to be one of the most feared killers in a city. But stranger things have happened I suppose.[/QUOTE]
she did roll with chris everywhere. I think that helped bring the fear.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=Heavincent]In real life, Omar actually survived a jump from the sixth floor rather than the 4th floor, so I don't see the problem.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Reef]She killed someone in real life when she was like 14 or something.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure the real Omar has some great war stories and I'm well aware that Ms. Pearson has some dirt on her and spent 6 years in prison for killing another woman, as well as a recent drug bust she was involved in. I was just addressing a poster's assertion that the Sopranos was like a cartoon compared to the Wire, which [I]clearly[/I] had the more outlandish characters and situations.
But I'm sure someone will fill me in on the exploits of the real nation of Islam, dead eye aim, bowtie wearing, one man muscle squad Brother Mouzone :cheers:
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=DonDadda59]I'm sure the real Omar has some great war stories and I'm well aware that Ms. Pearson has some dirt on her and spent 6 years in prison for killing another woman, as well as a recent drug bust she was involved in. I was just addressing a poster's assertion that the Sopranos was like a cartoon compared to the Wire, which [I]clearly[/I] had the more outlandish characters and situations.
But I'm sure someone will fill me in on the exploits of the real nation of Islam, dead eye aim, bowtie wearing, one man muscle squad Brother Mouzone :cheers:[/QUOTE]
And let's suppose that The Sopranos did have more outlandish characters
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=andgar923]And let's suppose that The Sopranos did have more outlandish characters
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=DonDadda59]I disagree, especially when it comes to the Wire specifically. You say 'one is watching a show not a documentary', but in a way that's exactly what the Wire set out to do- be a study/documentary of the ills that plague a Metropolitan area like Baltimore. The war on drugs, politics, law enforcement, the educational system, the media are all subjects that were covered by the show. Even the way the seasons were constructed was like a sociology book separated into chapters about specific areas (ie, Season 1 was about the 'cops vs robbers' aspect, Season 2 was about the docks, Season 4 the educational system, Season 5 the media).
So a huge degree of realism is expected and is executed for the most part.[/QUOTE]
I agree, it depends on the kind of show in question.
A show such as The Wire needs more realistic characters, not as bombastic, whereas The Sopranos can even benefit from it. Sure the Sopranos wants realism, but they're not trying to be what the Wire was.
Only brought it up is because some knocked the Wire and BB for having over the top characters, but they're not trying to be a documentary-ish type show a la Wire.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=DonDadda59]I'm sure the real Omar has some great war stories and I'm well aware that Ms. Pearson has some dirt on her and spent 6 years in prison for killing another woman, as well as a recent drug bust she was involved in. I was just addressing a poster's assertion that the Sopranos was like a cartoon compared to the Wire, which [I]clearly[/I] had the more outlandish characters and situations.
But I'm sure someone will fill me in on the exploits of the real nation of Islam, dead eye aim, bowtie wearing, one man muscle squad Brother Mouzone :cheers:[/QUOTE]
Awww that was months ago, that's sweet that you still carry that with you. My criticisms of The Sopranos really hit you hard.
Funny that I even agree with you in this instance. Snoop and Brother Mouzone are two of my least favorite characters in The Wire, and Omar's supernatural feats annoyed me. I've criticized those characters years ago on this webzone, so no one can really pick at me for consistency. I definitely don't think The Wire is beyond criticism by any stretch, it's far from perfect. As long as it's valid criticism I'm totally cool.
It is kind of shameful though that you are deliberately trying to turn this thread into another Sopranos vs. The Wire thread. I understand your soul is burning, but we had that thread already. Bump that one if you must.
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Re: This must be said: The Wire is overrated
[QUOTE=LJJ]Awww that was months ago, that's sweet that you still carry that with you. My criticisms of The Sopranos really hit you hard.
Funny that I even agree with you in this instance. Snoop and Brother Mouzone are two of my least favorite characters in The Wire, and Omar's supernatural feats annoyed me. I've criticized those characters years ago on this webzone, so no one can really pick at me for consistency. I definitely don't think The Wire is beyond criticism by any stretch, it's far from perfect. As long as it's valid criticism I'm totally cool.
It is kind of shameful though that you are deliberately trying to turn this thread into another Sopranos vs. The Wire thread. I understand your soul is burning, but we had that thread already. Bump that one if you must.[/QUOTE]
The hilarious thing is I have absolutely no clue who you are :oldlol:
Read back in this thread, I was addressing another poster.
But good to see you agree, that's something I guess :cheers: