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-   -   Knick just wasting time with Woodson? (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=309242)

el gringos 08-01-2013 06:26 PM

Knick just wasting time with Woodson?
 
Is Woodson a coach that can win a championship? Is that even the goal.

A lazy coach plays 2 pg's together because that is the safest easiest way to coach a team.

Copying George Karl on how to use Carmelo and JR smith. Karl hated those 2 players and spent many years sabatoging them. Both of those players need to be put in position to succeed, but the easy way out is just let them try to play hero ball all the time. Of course they like that- does that mean that what is best for the team?

Phil Jackson would start shumpert/JR/Carmelo/Bargnani/chandler. Why? Because when you play your best players together the rest can learn a role to fit around them. Felton would be great as the primary ball handler/decision maker for the second unit. Jr would be great as not a primary option all the time.


Woodson is either scared or too stupid to coach this team.

knickscity 08-01-2013 07:02 PM

Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?
 
Carlisle won a ring with Dallas playing a two pg lineup and even three guards at a time.

Phil would coach this team, he'd demand all of them traded.

The problem isnt whether Woodson can coach a team to title but rather is this team a title contender?

The simple answer is no, but they should be competitive and a hard team to knockout.

el gringos 08-02-2013 10:34 PM

Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by knickscity
Carlisle won a ring with Dallas playing a two pg lineup and even three guards at a time.

Phil would coach this team, he'd demand all of them traded.

The problem isnt whether Woodson can coach a team to title but rather is this team a title contender?

The simple answer is no, but they should be competitive and a hard team to knockout.

Huge disagree. This team has elite talent.

This isn't girls basketball where the coach controls what the players do. A coach controls only who plays with who and for how long. And that is the problem- how the players are used.

Shumpert and Jr smith are the best 2 gaurds. Defensively and offensively. (Maybe you can make an argument for Felton over shumpert offensively, but there is no arguing defense right?

The 6th man is someone you want handling the ball and making decisions- who fits that better, Felton or JR smith?

The only reason you put Felton over shumpert or jr smith is if you want option number 1 to be a pg/c pick and roll- why do you want that as first option when you have the best post up 3 of all time?

Shumpert
Jr smith
Carmelo
Bargnani
Chandler

Felton, mwp, Kmart, amare off the bench

That's as talented of a rotation as there is in the NBA. Problem is they aren't used right and it lowers the ceiling of the team using them out of talent order.

knickscity 08-03-2013 02:40 PM

Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?
 
Elite talent doesnt equal championship contender.

I actually debate the "elite talent" remark.

When i think elite I at least would believe the best at their position.

The team is good, not so much a title contender.

el gringos 10-31-2013 03:38 PM

Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?
 
Playing Carmelo, shumpert, Bargnani, jr smith out of order just to build a team around Felton, chandler and prigioni? Woodson is so dumb that he is completely backwards. Throwing away a season is one thing if you have the talent that the 76rs have- to throw away a season when you have the talent of the Knicks roster is another story.


This team needs someone to coach it- not some lazy guy standing around encouraging iso ball. Iso with this roster can be a good regular season team. How is that enough for you?

Sarcastic 10-31-2013 03:54 PM

Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?
 
I agree with Gringo here. Woodson is a tool. He will be fired after this year if he does not get the Knicks to the ECF at least. The writing is on the wall after his boy, Grunwald was relieved of his duties.

Rameek 10-31-2013 05:32 PM

Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?
 
This guy coached the team to a 2nd seed. 50 plus wins. I dont think a coach will get fired for not starting who we like. Woody will be here as long as Melo and Dolan wants.

franchize 10-31-2013 11:31 PM

Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rameek
This guy coached the team to a 2nd seed. 50 plus wins. I dont think a coach will get fired for not starting who we like. Woody will be here as long as Melo and Dolan wants.

This

That being said, I've lost faith in this guy. He has no plan B. Him going small and switching was his masterpiece. That was his ta da moment. He's completely shot his load. He's just grasping at straws at this point. I respect what he's done as a coach, but it's time to move on. He's too stuck in his ways. As I've said before, we need a young, energetic coach who we can grow with. Not this "my way or the highway" crap. You can't try and do the same thing with every team every year, regardless on the personnel. We aren't last year's team let alone the Hawks...and I'm not sure I want to be.

el gringos 10-31-2013 11:55 PM

Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rameek
This guy coached the team to a 2nd seed. 50 plus wins. I dont think a coach will get fired for not starting who we like. Woody will be here as long as Melo and Dolan wants.

It's not even really just who starts. It's how he takes the lazy way out of everything. These Knicks including or even especially it's best players need coached as much or more than any team in the nba. Carmelo isn't even aware that he is not a perimeter player not is he at his best only in iso. He doesn't realize that his game is inside out- the opposite of Lebron or a Durant

The idea that because his win percentage is so high that it means he is good is so far off. His win percentage is high because of the talent he has. Where woodsons impact really shows is the playoffs and its a negative.

This team would benifit more from a triangle type or some type of inside out offense. Problem is when your coach is so lazy you get the opposite. A pick and role/iso offense


I love this roster. But they aren't smart enough to coach themselves

Rameek 11-01-2013 10:38 AM

Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?
 
This is what he is. He's been this way from jump street and Atlanta.

As long as he's getting results Dolan won't make the change and as long as Melo is happy nothing will change.

kNicKz 11-06-2013 02:36 PM

Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?
 
I liked the defense that he initially brought to the Knicks, after dealing with Pringles...but I'm starting to get sick of his lack of offensive plays

knickscity 11-06-2013 05:39 PM

Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?
 
Even though Woody will lose his job soon if they dont turn it around...nobody will get this squad to winning ways.

It's not that good.

On a nightly basis can anyone with a straight face say the Knicks are the most talented TEAM on the floor vs their opponent?

Out of 82 games, I'd say maybe 20 times, and thats even recognizing melo as a top 10 player.

franchize 11-07-2013 10:18 AM

Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by knickscity
Even though Woody will lose his job soon if they dont turn it around...nobody will get this squad to winning ways.

It's not that good.

On a nightly basis can anyone with a straight face say the Knicks are the most talented TEAM on the floor vs their opponent?

Out of 82 games, I'd say maybe 20 times, and thats even recognizing melo as a top 10 player.


With all due respect. Not trying to pick an argument here. But haven't I been saying this for the past 3 years? We've squandered our offseason with folk heroes and fan favorites instead of surrounding Melo with TALENT. The Amare thing is like debt. It's not going away for a while. But don't go out and mess up everything else. You gotta maximize the resources you do have. Signing guys like Bibby, Kidd, Prigioni, Novak etc isn't how you maximize your limited assets.

el gringos 11-23-2013 11:59 PM

Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?
 
The team has a losing mentality. What more reason to make a change can there be?

Rameek 11-24-2013 02:51 AM

Re: Knick just wasting time with Woodson?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by el gringos
The team has a losing mentality. What more reason to make a change can there be?

How does a team that went to the 2nd round and 50 plus games have a losing mentality.

I do smell a shake up coming though. If something doesnt change after this road trip and this team loses to Brooklyn. I think heads will roll.


These changes are the reason I think Melo will probably leave and a good part of why this organization wont acquire talent. Constant turnover with BAD coaches and Bad GM's and then constant turnover with the roster.
Quote:

Coaches

Don Chaney 2001–2004
Herb Williams* 2004
Lenny Wilkens 2004–2005
Herb Williams* 2005
Larry Brown 2005–2006
Isiah Thomas 2006–2008
Mike D'Antoni 2008–2012
Mike Woodson 2012–present



Quote:

GM's
Scott Layden: 1999–2004
Isiah Thomas: 2004–2008
Donnie Walsh: 2008–2011
Glen Grunwald: 2011–2013
Steve Mills: 2013-present


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