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-   -   To contend, or not to contend? (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=321222)

Too_Cool 01-02-2014 10:24 AM

To contend, or not to contend?
 
With the state of the east and how great the raps are playing right now, what do ya'll think about going for that 3rd seed?

Going to be very hard to tank and the lowest we would get is 10 even with full on tank, trading Derozan, Lowry and Johnson? If we go for it we can host a playoff game, gain some playoff experience and build a winning culture in the locker room. Who knows, maybe George gets injured for the Pacers or the Heat lose Lebron. They could go to the east final...


Personally, I would still want the tank lol. I want a championship one day and you aren't going to get that without a serious rebuild and good drafting. (unless you're one of the 7 teams that have one a championship over the last 50 years...)

Kungfro 01-02-2014 10:29 AM

Re: To contend, or not to contend?
 
Grantland just had a pretty good article on that.

The overhaul of the Toronto Raptors

Qwyjibo 01-02-2014 11:44 AM

Re: To contend, or not to contend?
 
I'd still want the team to tank. But that's obviously not going to happen anymore. Now the road to become a long-term conference contender becomes far more murky and the management will have to work VERY hard to build this team up without the benefit of a good draft pick.

It'll also be interesting what they do with Lowry. If he's not traded, you either probably have to grossly overpay him in free agency to keep him here or let him walk and get nothing. I don't really like either option.

bokes15 01-02-2014 01:58 PM

Re: To contend, or not to contend?
 
To me the only 2 teams in the east that should have "contend" next to their name are Miami and Indy. Sure we could grab a 3rd seed if things keep going our way but we are still nowhere near the level we would need to contend for a championship. That being said i'm tired of losing and would be thrilled if we got a playoff seed and home court advantage. It's been way too long.

RaininThrees 01-02-2014 02:37 PM

Re: To contend, or not to contend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Too_Cool
With the state of the east and how great the raps are playing right now, what do ya'll think about going for that 3rd seed?

Going to be very hard to tank and the lowest we would get is 10 even with full on tank, trading Derozan, Lowry and Johnson? If we go for it we can host a playoff game, gain some playoff experience and build a winning culture in the locker room. Who knows, maybe George gets injured for the Pacers or the Heat lose Lebron. They could go to the east final...


Personally, I would still want the tank lol. I want a championship one day and you aren't going to get that without a serious rebuild and good drafting. (unless you're one of the 7 teams that have one a championship over the last 50 years...)


They're not getting a high pick.

Might as well embrace the winning.

RaininThrees 01-02-2014 02:38 PM

Re: To contend, or not to contend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
It'll also be interesting what they do with Lowry. If he's not traded, you either probably have to grossly overpay him in free agency to keep him here or let him walk and get nothing. I don't really like either option.


Honestly, I think if they're not going to tank they need to look at locking him up now... which might be an awkward conversation to have since he was all but traded a month ago.

Qwyjibo 01-02-2014 03:12 PM

Re: To contend, or not to contend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RaininThrees
Honestly, I think if they're not going to tank they need to look at locking him up now... which might be an awkward conversation to have since he was all but traded a month ago.

I read on some blog (can't remember where) that due to CBA rules on extensions and raises, an extension right now during the season would limit Lowry's years and dollars. Basically, for Lowry, he'll get more money with a new contract if he reaches free agency regardless if it's with Toronto or another team. So there's no incentive for him to sign an extension other than a deep sense of loyalty to the Raptors ( :oldlol: )

To me the options right now are:

1) Trade Lowry. How do you spin trading your, IMO, best player to the casual fanbase? Ujiri's primary job is always to make money for the franchise.

2) Try to re-sign him in free agency. Key word being "try". No guarantees there.

3) Let him walk in free agency and lose an asset for nothing.

RaininThrees 01-02-2014 03:21 PM

Re: To contend, or not to contend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
I read on some blog (can't remember where) that due to CBA rules on extensions and raises, an extension right now during the season would limit Lowry's years and dollars. Basically, for Lowry, he'll get more money with a new contract if he reaches free agency regardless if it's with Toronto or another team. So there's no incentive for him to sign an extension other than a deep sense of loyalty to the Raptors ( :oldlol: )

To me the options right now are:

1) Trade Lowry. How do you spin trading your, IMO, best player to the casual fanbase? Ujiri's primary job is always to make money for the franchise.

2) Try to re-sign him in free agency. Key word being "try". No guarantees there.

3) Let him walk in free agency and lose an asset for nothing.


That seems Bass Ackwards, now doesn't it?

Too_Cool 01-02-2014 03:27 PM

Re: To contend, or not to contend?
 
Good points, good points. Yes I suppose we have try and win but do we completely stand pat? I don't want to sign Lowry long term, that's for sure, and sign and trading him isn't a big asset. Just a bad situation...

Johnson is only 26 and is valuable but I would liketo know what he is worth on the trade market right meow as I still think we can take the craplantic and a playoff series with a Jonas/Psycho T/Patterson frontcourt and it has an added bonus of developing Jonas more.

Too_Cool 01-02-2014 03:29 PM

Re: To contend, or not to contend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RaininThrees
Honestly, I think if they're not going to tank they need to look at locking him up now... which might be an awkward conversation to have since he was all but traded a month ago.


I don't trust Lowry...

Too_Cool 01-02-2014 03:33 PM

Re: To contend, or not to contend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RaininThrees
That seems Bass Ackwards, now doesn't it?


Which option is ass backwards?

I would go with door #1 but the fanbase would erupt as Qwygibo mentioned

Qwyjibo 01-02-2014 03:35 PM

Re: To contend, or not to contend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RaininThrees
That seems Bass Ackwards, now doesn't it?

Wolstat twitter is where I first read it and there's rules in the CBA limiting the $$ raises for veteran extensions.

Quote:

Ryan Wolstat ‏@WolstatSun 29 Dec An e-mailer let me know I can’t read. Forget the Lowry extension stuff. Would include this season, so only be for three extra years

I think it was something like only $7 million per over 3 years if he were to agree to an extension. He'll obviously get more on the open market with a brand new contract.

RaininThrees 01-02-2014 08:41 PM

Re: To contend, or not to contend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Too_Cool
Which option is ass backwards?

I would go with door #1 but the fanbase would erupt as Qwygibo mentioned


Limiting the amount a player can get from his existing team in an extension seems backwards.

In this case, it'd be bad for the Raps to have to wait (if they want to extend) and then have free market pressures on him.

Also, it's bad for the player.

Assume the scenario:

- Raps want to lock-up Lowry, but can't due to this rule
- Lowry has a Garbajosa-like injury sometime between now and free agency

Obviously the team is saved in this scenario, but the Player has his future security compromised because he wasn't able to lock-up due to some CBA rule.

If the guy wants to sign and the team wants to sign him at agreeable terms, seems silly to not be able to do that.

Grey Dawn 01-02-2014 10:24 PM

Re: To contend, or not to contend?
 
Woo-hoo! Stuck in no-man's land!

GoRapz 01-03-2014 03:08 AM

Re: To contend, or not to contend?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey Dawn
Woo-hoo! Stuck in no-man's land!


So anything other than 1st seed is "No Man's Land"?

IMO, I feel like coming into the season Masai was praying for either one of two things. Either we completely stink or we make some noise. Prior to the Rudy trade, I feel like Masai thought we were in "No Man's Land", forcing his hand to make a deal. Once the deal was made, he knew it was for better or worse, but was fine with either result.

Lol @ so called fans on here acting like winning leads to a dead end. Whatever road we take will open many opportunities for us, and I think everyone should trust Masai to make the right moves.

If we continue to win, we'll have a solid core to build on with the cap space and picks we have. Also, everyone's value will be at their highest if Masai needs to make a change.

It's not the end of the world guys, enjoy this run because history shows that this Raptors franchise is very unpredictable.


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