Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/index.php)
-   Toronto Raptors Forum (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10)
-   -   Is Derozan as good as Bosh was? (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=327230)

lilbeastnani 02-26-2014 05:25 PM

Is Derozan as good as Bosh was?
 


I think it's a legit question nowadays. I had done a whole numbers comparison (then my stupid computer froze) so I dont feel like doing it again. But their 5th season numbers are pretty similar and they are/were both all-stars. For Derozan though it's of course a matter of continuing to improve. But i'd say if he has a great showing in the playoffs and wins a round for the team he's already sandwiched in between Bosh and Carter in terms of what each has accomplished for the franchise. I think at the cost we get him at (half of Bosh's asking price) and the fact that he actually plays hard all the damn time and not just in a contract year we got the better end of the bargain.

kaiteng 02-26-2014 05:36 PM

Re: Is Derozan as good as Bosh was?
 
DeRozan is not as clutch as Bosh, and Bosh is just an above average clutch shooter.

But on other parts of the game DeRozan is getting up there.

bokes15 02-26-2014 05:44 PM

Re: Is Derozan as good as Bosh was?
 
Bosh was a better overall shooter, but I don't know about being a better clutch shooter if we're talking game winners or late game scenarios where we gave it to him for ISO plays. Also, he was anti-clutch in the playoffs. I hope Derozan can handle the increased defensive intensity when it comes down to it.

RapsFan 02-26-2014 05:52 PM

Re: Is Derozan as good as Bosh was?
 
Bosh has proven to still be relevant on a stacked team, all star etc. Personally, I'm happy with DeRozen's growth but I still think he'd be a role player on a lot of teams that had more talent.

Toni 02-26-2014 05:52 PM

Re: Is Derozan as good as Bosh was?
 
I think all-around he is a better player than him but that is probably because of the position he plays. As a guard, DeRozan is a better playmaker and Bosh is obviously the better rebounder. Both were good scorers and decent defensively. Bosh was the better isolation player and from what I can recall, better in the clutch. I find it hard to compare a guard and a post player when it comes to their skill sets, because they are so different.

However, if DeRozan brings this team to a new record in wins and to the second round of the playoffs.. I think by default he will become arguably one of the best players we ever had.

Legends66NBA7 02-26-2014 06:15 PM

Re: Is Derozan as good as Bosh was?
 
Until playoff play is included, this isn't a conversation yet.

If DeMar steps up his play in the playoffs, then I think the edge will clearly go to DeMar's favour. I'm assuming this also means that there will be a question of "Is Lowry as as Bosh was ?" in the future, since he has been playing better basketball so far this season, but I would still respond with the sentence above.

Qwyjibo 02-26-2014 07:01 PM

Re: Is Derozan as good as Bosh was?
 
No. Not even close right now. Lowry is having a better season than Derozan and even he isn't doing what Bosh did at his best with the Raptors.

Just off the top of my head, Bosh was simply better at pretty much ever aspect of the game. The obvious ones you'd expect from a big man like rebounding but also scoring and defense (not great but better compared to Derozan).

Bosh is becoming underrated among Raptors fans because it seems like some people forget that the 2nd best players during his time here were TJ Ford and Jose Calderon. Just another awful job by the management to surround a star player with talent.

brwnman 02-26-2014 07:16 PM

Re: Is Derozan as good as Bosh was?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
No. Not even close right now. Lowry is having a better season than Derozan and even he isn't doing what Bosh did at his best with the Raptors.

Just off the top of my head, Bosh was simply better at pretty much ever aspect of the game. The obvious ones you'd expect from a big man like rebounding but also scoring and defense (not great but better compared to Derozan).

Bosh is becoming underrated among Raptors fans because it seems like some people forget that the 2nd best players during his time here were TJ Ford and Jose Calderon. Just another awful job by the management to surround a star player with talent.


Thank you. Bosh is well ahead of Derozan, and Lowry is the best player on this team right now.

Qwyjibo 02-26-2014 07:23 PM

Re: Is Derozan as good as Bosh was?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brwnman
Thank you. Bosh is well ahead of Derozan, and Lowry is the best player on this team right now.

Derozan's volume #'s are being overrated when people start thinking he's better than Lowry or even close to Bosh. Bosh at his best was scoring the same amount or more, doing it more efficiently while at roughly the same usage. I don't see any argument.

Derozan vs Lowry = quantity vs quality
Derozan vs Bosh = ??? Bosh did more and did it all better.

Legends66NBA7 02-27-2014 11:33 AM

Re: Is Derozan as good as Bosh was?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
Just off the top of my head, Bosh was simply better at pretty much ever aspect of the game.


Hyperbole. Just going off the top my head, he's not a better passer or play maker. Big men don't often do this, but Bosh was never on the level of guys like Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett to begin with in terms of passing. He's not even Dirk Nowitzki level.

If it's about current DeRozan vs whatever year Bosh was at his best, DeMar clearly has shed the notion of being a "ball stopper", unlike Bosh. He also doesn't turn the ball over as much as Bosh did.

Regardless, none of that makes DeMar on that "leve" just yet. Again, just let's see how much more he can continue to develop and if he can raise his game in the playoffs.

Quote:

Bosh is becoming underrated among Raptors fans

If anything, he was overrated before (if this the case for DeMar now too). He was never going to be the #1 option for championship team, regardless of whoever was putting talent around him. I remember he stunk in the playoffs overall and his teammates actually bailed him out in 3 of those wins in the 11 playoff games. Bosh needed to join LeBron James and Dwyane Wade in Miami for his help. Management wasn't going to get those guys and Bosh reclaiming the #1 spot.

Quote:

Derozan's volume #'s are being overrated when people start thinking he's better than Lowry or even close to Bosh.

There's only 1 guy on the main board who thought that. Those who have watched all the game (like me) know Lowry's better and I've already said that the question should be asserted for Kyle. And yes, Kyle is in the conversation too if that's the case.

Jballer 02-27-2014 01:14 PM

Re: Is Derozan as good as Bosh was?
 
With due respect to your opinions.. you cant compare.

CB4 was a big man needing to bulk up (Shaq's Rupal statement) who took the vast majority of shots within 12 feet. He had an inside out step back and developed a decent 3 for a big man. His D assignment was often the other teams Center and not many teams actually run the offence through the center except for pick and roll. Occassionally he played 1 -1 on another teams star 4 (Duncan - San Antonio). Great player and clutch - no disagrement.

Derozan is a small forward or shooting guard. His shots are from everywhere. His D assignment and rotations are different.

You could ask " Is Derozan at this stage (as a Raptor) as good as Vince Carter was at the same stage when he was a Raptor "??

Legends66NBA7 02-27-2014 01:59 PM

Re: Is Derozan as good as Bosh was?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jballer
Great player and clutch - no disagrement.


Major disagreement. Playoff play during his Raptor career indicates that he's neither of these things.

He was never a top tier PF or the best player at his position. Never considered in the ranks of guys like Duncan, Garnett, Nowitzki, Malone, Barkley, etc... Never a top 10-15 player in the league.

He had no such memorable playoff moments outside of like... 1 or 2 games? In one of those games he missed a game winner and didn't even make a field goal in the 4th ? That's not greatness. He belongs in the next tier of PF's, the Amare, Griffin, Aldridge, J.O'Neal, Boozer, Brand, Randolph, Lee, Anthony Davis, Juwan Howard, Kemp, etc... He's in that group. Good player, never THAT consistent to be great. The verdict is still out on the likes of guys like Griffin, LMA, Davis, etc... to see if they can be great PF's which determines a lot from their playoff play.


Quote:

You could ask " Is Derozan at this stage (as a Raptor) as good as Vince Carter was at the same stage when he was a Raptor "??

And off course, he isn't. Vince's previous experiences and peak are the standard right now for any Raptor. He was actually our one (and only) true great player.

Qwyjibo 02-27-2014 04:03 PM

Re: Is Derozan as good as Bosh was?
 
Top 10-15? Probably not. Might've hit the end of that range at his best. Top 20-25? Absolutely, IMO.

There is no question he was this franchise's 2nd best player. #1 and 2 are inarguable when it comes to the Raptors history thus far. Peak, length, whatever... Vince is #1, Bosh is #2. No one on the current roster touches them right now.

Legends66NBA7 02-27-2014 06:12 PM

Re: Is Derozan as good as Bosh was?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
Top 10-15? Probably not. Might've hit the end of that range at his best. Top 20-25? Absolutely, IMO.

There is no question he was this franchise's 2nd best player. #1 and 2 are inarguable when it comes to the Raptors history thus far. Peak, length, whatever... Vince is #1, Bosh is #2. No one on the current roster touches them right now.


I agree with you here. We'll see if anyone can prove themselves otherwise, which would be great.

Prodigy 02-28-2014 03:36 AM

Re: Is Derozan as good as Bosh was?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jballer
CB4 was a big man needing to bulk up (Shaq's Rupal statement) who took the vast majority of shots within 12 feet. He had an inside out step back and developed a decent 3 for a big man. His D assignment was often the other teams Center and not many teams actually run the offence through the center except for pick and roll. Occassionally he played 1 -1 on another teams star 4 (Duncan - San Antonio). Great player and clutch - no disagrement.


I disagree. Chris's strengths were his speed and hands when playing face-up against a defender. Too big? He would blow by his man and finish with his offhand or draw the foul. Too small? He would sink the step back J with alarming accuracy. During his peak years with the Raptors he almost never shot the 3 ball.

To my memory, he showed little signs of being 'clutch' and performing big in the fourth. He was also routinely outplayed in the big games (ala playoffs/olympics).

Still, he was much more of an efficient scorer than Derozan mainly because of who he would be matched up against. Both get to the line a fair amount and can make free throws. DeMar relies on his midrange shots a tad much though. Sometimes he is on and it's fun to watch but there are times where he isn't and aside from Vasquez, he is the Raptor's only REAL penetrating offensive threat. With his athleticism I feel like Demar could get to the line more than he is right now. His ball handling has improved greatly from seasons past (could still improve some though).


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:31 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy