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-   -   Knicks fans are in a strange dilemma (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3515)

bagelred 06-30-2006 10:58 AM

Knicks fans are in a strange dilemma
 
Because of the James Dolan interview, Knicks fans are in a weird dilemma now.

Dolan said that if the Knicks show real progress, then Isiah stays and he will see that the "plan" is working.

So now Knicks fans are rooting AGAINST the Knicks, so the Isiah era will come to an end as soon as possible, and we can start the REAL rebuilding if Dolan hires an executive who actually has intelligence....

I've never been in a situation where I hope my team loses big time, but here we are. GO KNICKS COMPETITION!!!!!

ShannonElements 06-30-2006 11:00 AM

I agree. Lose Knicks, lose! And not only does Isiah get the boot, but the Bulls potentially get a lottery pick...:D

Joey Zaza 06-30-2006 11:05 AM

I'm not in any kind of "dilemma". If the team plays well under Isiah, it means that the talent on the team (which is there) can work under Isiah's guidance. If that's the case, let Isiah make the team work and win. Plus, since we don;t have a good pick next year anyway, may as well win.

Go Knicks.

bagelred 06-30-2006 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joey Zaza
I'm not in any kind of "dilemma". If the team plays well under Isiah, it means that the talent on the team (which is there) can work under Isiah's guidance. If that's the case, let Isiah make the team work and win. Plus, since we don;t have a good pick next year anyway, may as well win.

Go Knicks.


What's going to happen is the Knicks will be a "success" by playing .500 ball. Woopdee-freakin-doo!!!!

So then they'll be in medicrity for the next four years, with Isiah still around making bad decisions...

You think a team with Francis, Marbury, Crawford, James, Curry, Richardson, Robinson is going anywhere? All those guys are just losing players....

Semiprocappa 06-30-2006 11:19 AM

The knicks need to play around .500 ball because every game they lose takes everyone one step closer to another era of Chicago dominance. Chicago already have a playoff team but add Greg Oden to the team... 10 straight years of chicago championships. A dynasty to rival the Celtics.

If this happens, at least one GM of the year award should go to Isiah. The architect of Chicago's team.

Joey Zaza 06-30-2006 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bagelred
What's going to happen is the Knicks will be a "success" by playing .500 ball. Woopdee-freakin-doo!!!!


If they go from 28 wins last year, to 41 wins this year, it will be Whoppdee-freakin-doo...and it'll be something to build on.

I don't beleive like Larry Brown that there is a right way and everything else is the wrong way. If Isiah has a "way" to make this collection of players work and win, who is going to object to that...and IF they win, then it'll be a ob of tweaking and not overhauling, which is easier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bagelred
So then they'll be in medicrity for the next four years, with Isiah still around making bad decisions...


If mediocrity means 41-48 wins every year a putting uop a fight in the 1st round for the next four years, I think that's all you can really ask of a GM. Beyond that, you need ot be a little bit luck with bounces of the ball and getting a real-life superstar player. They aren't so easy to get, there's about 5 of them in the league.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bagelred
You think a team with Francis, Marbury, Crawford, James, Curry, Richardson, Robinson is going anywhere? All those guys are just losing players...


Is that really true? Francis has been in the playoffs a few times and played his freaking balls off (averaging a near triple double) v. a great lakers team. Marbury took a great Spurs team to 5 and would have had a fine 2nd season with Pho if Amare stasyed healthy. We're ready to call Nate a loser already. He's a change of pace, role player off the bench, he's good/bad based on how you use him.

Is any player a pure winneror a pure loser. If a coach designs a scheme that workd for the players and players buy into it and execute, they'll win.

Da KO King 06-30-2006 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bagelred
What's going to happen is the Knicks will be a "success" by playing .500 ball. Woopdee-freakin-doo!!!!

So then they'll be in medicrity for the next four years, with Isiah still around making bad decisions...

You think a team with Francis, Marbury, Crawford, James, Curry, Richardson, Robinson is going anywhere? All those guys are just losing players....

.500 ball means playoffs. You saying that making the playoffs isn't team success?

bagelred 06-30-2006 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da KO King
.500 ball means playoffs. You saying that making the playoffs isn't team success?


I'm saying when you spend $125 million dollars, lock players up with big contracts up for years to come, trade away potential top draft picks, and the best you can say is we MIGHT play .500 ball and MAYBE make the playoffs.....

That's not even close to success to me.....you can have it....

I'd rather be at the bottom of the pack and collect young talent with a cheap payroll. Like Charlotte for example. Bad for few years, collecting top draft talent, great future.....

Joey Zaza 06-30-2006 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bagelred
I'm saying when you spend $125 million dollars, lock players up with big contracts up for years to come, trade away potential top draft picks, and the best you can say is we MIGHT play .500 ball and MAYBE make the playoffs.....

That's not even close to success to me.....you can have it....

I'd rather be at the bottom of the pack and collect young talent with a cheap payroll. Like Charlotte for example. Bad for few years, collecting top draft talent, great future.....


Its a place to start.

This young talent, be bad and collect - how many teams has that really worked for? How many title teams built like that? Not Miami, SA, Detroit, LA, Bulls, rockets. Nope, none, won titles with acollection of young talent that played for them for years.

bagelred 06-30-2006 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joey Zaza
Its a place to start.

This young talent, be bad and collect - how many teams has that really worked for? How many title teams built like that? Not Miami, SA, Detroit, LA, Bulls, rockets. Nope, none, won titles with acollection of young talent that played for them for years.


If I'm not mistaken, Michael Jordan was a draft pick taken because....the Bulls were bad? Didn't they get Pippen because....the Bulls were bad?

You know why SA got Tim Duncan? Because they were bad....

Miami got Dwayne Wade..why? Bad....

Los Angelese got Kobe...somewhat high draft pick...bad....

Rockets got Akeem.....because they were bad....

Cavs got Lebron....bad

Rockets got Yao....bad

KG...bad

Orlando got Shaq....bad

Then got Penny....bad

Ewing...bad


Get the picture?


And by the way, your expectations of your team are just so so so low. When did .500 ball and making the playoffs become success. Pretty much any team can do that in the NBA....

VCDrivesAPorscheToWork 06-30-2006 12:11 PM

re:
 
when will those stubborn New York fans, especially the teenagers turn to the Nets? i thought young kids liked to run and gun and do tricks and alleyoops and sick, HORSE style shots. Vince Carter and the Nets bring that entertainment.


what do the Knicks bring? turnovers and bricks.


:confused:

Zalendar 06-30-2006 12:12 PM

I don't think the Knicks are going to be that bad this year. Thomas is going to let them run and gun.

Not saying they are going to be spectacular or anything...

Shogon 06-30-2006 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bagelred
If I'm not mistaken, Michael Jordan was a draft pick taken because....the Bulls were bad? Didn't they get Pippen because....the Bulls were bad?

You know why SA got Tim Duncan? Because they were bad....

Miami got Dwayne Wade..why? Bad....

Los Angelese got Kobe...somewhat high draft pick...bad....

Rockets got Akeem.....because they were bad....

Cavs got Lebron....bad

Rockets got Yao....bad

KG...bad

Orlando got Shaq....bad

Then got Penny....bad

Ewing...bad


Get the picture?


And by the way, your expectations of your team are just so so so low. When did .500 ball and making the playoffs become success. Pretty much any team can do that in the NBA....


Orlando wasn't bad when they got Penny. They were already a .500 ballclub because of Shaq. They just lucked into winning the lottery and David Stern changed it because of it lol

bagelred 06-30-2006 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shogon
Orlando wasn't bad when they got Penny. They were already a .500 ballclub because of Shaq. They just lucked into winning the lottery and David Stern changed it because of it lol


Sssshhhhhhhh......I'm trying to make a point....wink

Joey Zaza 06-30-2006 12:52 PM

Yes, you have to be bad in order to get a top draft pick and the great franchise player. No doubt. But, then every team -asidefrom the Spurs, Mavs, Heat, and maybe Minn., Cle, and LA, - faces the very dilemma that you place for the Knicks. Do we root against our team in the hopes they get that championship great pick in the draft or root for our team as its presently constructed in the hopes they win.

You were talking about breaking it down and getting "young players". Breaking it down and getting young players - Bobcats style - does not work. Clips tried it, Bulls have been doing it with some success for years, Bobcats future doesn't look any brighter, Vancouver did it for years without success.

I am all in favor of losing to get the great championship player, and please raise me a flag the next time one comes along. Otherwise, get me player who will play and a coach who will get a system for them to play in and I'll hope for playoffs and 2nd round.


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