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-   -   Why is everyone dismissing the Pistons when Big Ben left?? (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4719)

CARONBUTLER 07-10-2006 10:19 PM

Why is everyone dismissing the Pistons when Big Ben left??
 
I don't understand how every sports analyst does not see the Pistons as still a power in the East. Granted, Big Ben was a big loss but he's on the downslope of his career. Let's examine the other 4 still there:

1)Billups- 2nd best PG in the NBA, clutch

2)Rip- Great conditioned shooter, one of the best mid-range games

3)Prince- Maybe the most versatile SF in that he can shoot, defend, rebound, and dribble(very underrated)

4) Rasheed- Could be a star if he wanted to be big guy w/ a J and toughness

5) Anybody that can defend and rebound( Mohammed)

Thats one of the best starting 5's in the L and its better then the Bulls in every position but center. Everybody is hyping them up too much and I feel the Pistons can still win a championship w/ this team. Just want your thoughts on this

HALLandOATES 07-10-2006 10:22 PM

Quote:

Everybody is hyping them up too much and I feel the Pistons can still win a championship w/ this team. Just want your thoughts on this

I think you are right but I don't think the Pistons can win a championship with this team. They haven't upgraded any and they need more of a bench. I still think they are a re 50 win team unlike alot of other people though.

BradMiller52 07-10-2006 10:29 PM

Lets see, they played without intensity in the heat series, they have no bench, they lost their starting center who was their best shotblocker and rebounder, they have a ****ty all offense coach, and teams around them like the bulls are getting better.

BlackVVaves 07-10-2006 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CARONBUTLER
I don't understand how every sports analyst does not see the Pistons as still a power in the East. Granted, Big Ben was a big loss but he's on the downslope of his career. Let's examine the other 4 still there:

1)Billups- 2nd best PG in the NBA, clutch

2)Rip- Great conditioned shooter, one of the best mid-range games

3)Prince- Maybe the most versatile SF in that he can shoot, defend, rebound, and dribble(very underrated)

4) Rasheed- Could be a star if he wanted to be big guy w/ a J and toughness

5) Anybody that can defend and rebound( Mohammed)

Thats one of the best starting 5's in the L and its better then the Bulls in every position but center. Everybody is hyping them up too much and I feel the Pistons can still win a championship w/ this team. Just want your thoughts on this


Bad first post. You are utterly stupid and/or misinformed. Starting with:

Quote:

1)Billups- 2nd best PG in the NBA, clutch

:wtf: Billups isn't even top 5 PG in the league, nor is he top 5 clutch.

Quote:

2)Rip- Great conditioned shooter, one of the best mid-range games

True. But what does that have to do with Ben leaving? We are talking DEFENSE, not offense.
Quote:


3)Prince- Maybe the most versatile SF in that he can shoot, defend, rebound, and dribble(very underrated)


Marion is probably the most versatile. If you dont believe me, check his stats. But thats beside the point. Unless Prince suddenly puts up 20 and 10, I dont see how he will take the Pistons to the Finals.

Quote:

4) Rasheed- Could be a star if he wanted to be big guy w/ a J and toughness

Possibly on the decline. He will have to elevate his game.

Quote:

5) Anybody that can defend and rebound( Mohammed)

Ben Wallace does not Equal "anyone that can defend or rebound". And even if he was, you got the wrong guy, because Nazr doesn't do either well.

Your statements were flawed to the point where I feel Ii just wasted 5 minutes of my life reading and responding to them. Please be gone. We have enough retards roaming here already. I am calling you a retard simply because you said Billups is top 2 point guard. So either you are ****ing around, or an idiot.

CARONBUTLER 07-10-2006 10:49 PM

Billups isnt clutch??????
 
Then name the other top 5 PG's if Billups isn't behind Nash. Im talking PG's not SG that happend to play PG like Arenas. Billups is very clutch so your an idiot for not saying he is. I agree that Marion is more versatile Prince is second best. Name a more core 4 group of players then. Plus look at that Heat series and Big Ben was non-existent in that series.

Carbine 07-10-2006 10:57 PM

...
 
Ben Wallace was the heart of that Pistons' team. It's not going to be the same. Can they overcome it? Yeah, but it's going to take a re-focus of the team & I don't believe Flip can get them to where they, as a group, want to go.

scipio 07-10-2006 11:42 PM

The reason that I think the Pistons can be dismissed (and by dismissed I mean they will not win the title next year) is that their success was so dependent upon their starting 5. For the last few years, it has been the hands down best starting 5 in the league, and one of the very best defenses.

Their offense, which improved this season under Saunders, should be about the same if not improved. Their defense will be significantly less potent, though. Rasheed is not the shotblocker the team needs, and it is unlikely that they can acquire such a player. Also, the Pistons struggled at times with rebounding, and Ben's departure should only make that struggle more prominent.

shadow 07-10-2006 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CARONBUTLER
Then name the other top 5 PG's if Billups isn't behind Nash. Im talking PG's not SG that happend to play PG like Arenas. Billups is very clutch so your an idiot for not saying he is. I agree that Marion is more versatile Prince is second best. Name a more core 4 group of players then. Plus look at that Heat series and Big Ben was non-existent in that series.

wait why does arenas suddenly not warrant being a PG?
If anything billups is more of a shoot first guy himself than he is a true PG.
Plus look at Carbine's post. Ben was the anchor of that team. He defined it their play. hardwork, scrappy play, tough, phyiscal, all qualities he bought to the team. When a tight knit group loses an important part like that, things come apart. A great coach can ofcourse offset that and hold things together, its too bad the pistons don't have a great coach.

browntown 07-11-2006 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackVVaves
:wtf: Billups isn't even top 5 PG in the league, nor is he top 5 clutch.

black almost everything you said in your post is true exept billups. Ofcurse he is a clutch shooter, probebly one of the best in the NBA after Kobe ofcurse. also top 2 gaurd to some maybe apply but that might be taking it a little far and I can name the 2 top gaurds nash and Iverson and maybe even Kidd and Arenas just maybe.

KiNG 07-11-2006 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by browntown
black almost everything you said in your post is true exept billups. Ofcurse he is a clutch shooter, probebly one of the best in the NBA after Kobe ofcurse. also top 2 gaurd to some maybe apply but that might be taking it a little far and I can name the 2 top gaurds nash and Iverson and maybe even Kidd and Arenas just maybe.


seem like u dont know wtf u talkin about

FPower 07-11-2006 12:22 AM

Basically, the Pistons lost their identity last year when they brought in Flip. Ben was the main part of their "old" identity, so with his departure there's no hope of going back to their gritty, dominating defense.

So the question is, can they reinvent themselves and contend with a different philosophy? Can their uninhibited offense work in the playoffs? I say no. They'll win a lot of regular season games, but they're not contenders anymore.

RidonKs 07-11-2006 12:45 AM

I agree with most of you guys thinking the Pistons don't have a great shot at the toitle, but i think it's crazy to think they are completely out of the picture. Losing Ben was obviously pretty big, but he is one of those guys that you can't really be sure made THAT big of a difference, compared to other all stars with more complete games. He is the best rebounder and shot blocker in the league by far and away, but the fact that he was such a liability on offence takes away from that greatness ALOT. If the strart Nazr, (and you can't tell me he's a complete wash on defence), and then play McDyce (or something) a lot more off the bench (25-30 min), they'll have a more complete team. Ben being an allstar, he took away a lot of Dice's minuters, cuz they couldn't legitimately sub him off. Just look at what hapn't against Cle and Mia in the playoffs. /they played great D against both of them (with Ben not even being a huge factor), but they couldn't score. With Dice, Sheed, and Tay up front, that's one of the best frontcourts in the L. Like I said, i still don't think they will win, but they'll definately contend, because in a way, it's almost gain through loss, with Dice being able to step up and actually put up points at the C position.

Quote:

Lets see, they played without intensity in the heat series, they have no bench, they lost their starting center who was their best shotblocker and rebounder, they have a ****ty all offense coach, and teams around them like the bulls are getting better.

Wow, that's really smart. Just because the Bulls got better and the pistons didn't, that makes the bulls better than the pistons. Thats like saying charlotte improved and the spurs got worse, so the bobcats are better than SAS. IMO, Detroit takes Chicago any day, even without their allstar center.

(lol is anyone going to even read this, didn't realize it was so long as i was writing it)

jbot 07-11-2006 12:48 AM

ben wallace was their big defensive stopper. now they are all offense. muhammed isn't going to help much.

geeWiz15 07-11-2006 12:49 AM

Quote:

Why is everyone dismissing the Pistons when Big Ben left??
Um, maybe because their franchise cornerstone just bolted in free agency and they've replaced him with Nazr Mohammad?

This team still has a chance, though, but only if Sheed becomes the best post player in basketball which yes, he has the ability to. if he takes the responsibility of leading this team with Billups, they won't lose a step. If he sits back and bombs threes to a 12/7 tune, say hello to mediocrity.

Zombles 07-11-2006 12:49 AM

It's simpler then everyone is making it seem.

With Ben the Pistons failed to win another championship in two consecutive years.

He was the most important part of their defense, which was the most important facet of their game.

They lost Big Ben, did not find an equivalent replacement, so they downgraded as a team. They downgraded from contending for, but failing to win, championships. Ergo, they no longer have much of a shot at rings.


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