Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/index.php)
-   NBA Forum (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   Zach Randolph + Eddy Curry is dumb and here's why. (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49459)

geeWiz15 07-13-2007 08:44 PM

Zach Randolph + Eddy Curry is dumb and here's why.
 
When it first came to me, the crux of this post was going to be that when 2 players who both are very good, and both, at their best, play the same way, occupy the same space on the floor and need the ball in their hands to do anything are on the same team and are expected to mesh, that it is inherently impossible and the reputations of both players and the team could be irreversibly ruined.

And proof of this can be found at the guard spots of this exact same team last year.

But you can just forget that because I have a much easier reason.

What if it DOES work? (It won't.)

What does that give you? What ability has either Zach Randolph or Eddy Curry ever shown to suggest that they are winning players that will carry glory with them wherever they go? For all their numbers (20/7 and 24/10 I believe) their impact on the game starts and stops at those numbers.

Because neither player can control the game from the post. Both can score from there rather well but neither can control the game. Neither can direct an offense. Didn't Eddy Curry have like a 1:13 a/TO ratio last season? Players such as these historically do not win. Even guys like Karl Malone and Charles Barkley are both ringless. Sure, they ran into Jordan, but they also had great teams. There are players whose impact stretches well beyond Pts/Rebs and neither player (Randolph, Curry) is one of them.

Now let's assume no disasters happen and this duo works out as best as it possibly can. Logically, the best case scenario turns Zach Randolph into almost a full-time midrange jumpshooter offensively. And that brings me to the final reason this trade is stupid: in the *best case scenario*, a player's talents are wasted. You obviously can't have 2 guys posting up on the block with the ball simultaneously. One guy is going to have to step out and one guy is going to have to occupy the block and only one of these players can step out and that's Randolph. Also consider: what about Quentin Richardson? He, too, is best when he is posting up. Then you've got Stephon Marbury, who is best when he's penetrating and has the ball in his hands. Where will there be room?

This deal will turn both Quentin Richardson and Zach Randolph into almost full-time jumpshooters. THAT'S why it's stupid. No matter how you slice it, if everything works out perfectly, which again, it won't, you are completely wasting away talent that could be traded for players who do the jumpshooting thing better and fill some other holes as well.

Notice not once in this entire post did I mention defense. Or problems of attitude, weight, and discipline. That's how stupid this pairing of identical twins in the post is. I don't even need to mention the most glaring problem to cut it to pieces. Isiah Thomas is a great drafter, a great player, and I love his fearless abandon to make a big splash. But he needs to team up with someone who knows how to put a team together. If the Knicks think Randolph + Curry will take them past the first round, yes, even in the Least, I've got bad news.

Doesn't it occur to Isiah Thomas as peculiar that other GMs are so willing to give up big names with monster numbers for pennies on the dollar? Doesn't he ever step back and realize he's getting duped at every turn?

VCDrivesAPorscheToWork 07-13-2007 08:46 PM

Re: Zach Randolph + Eddy Curry is dumb and here's why.
 
Isiah believes he has the modern version of Tim Duncan and David Robinson.


but don't tell him that... this at least gives the Nets at least 3 free wins each season

Richie2k6 07-13-2007 08:47 PM

Re: Zach Randolph + Eddy Curry is dumb and here's why.
 
Quote:

Because neither player can control the game from the post. Both can score from there rather well but neither can control the game. Neither can direct an offense.
Couldn't agree more. Neither of them are true game changers or dominate harshly in the low post.

eeeeeebro 07-13-2007 08:48 PM

Re: Zach Randolph + Eddy Curry is dumb and here's why.
 
somebody has to be the sucker =)

thenextgreatbigman 07-13-2007 08:50 PM

Re: Zach Randolph + Eddy Curry is dumb and here's why.
 
randolph is lefty and last time i checked there are 2 blocks. And I don't expect them to be on the court at the same time longer than 15mins. It's nice to have a post presence on the court at all times.

I'm not excited about the move but it won't hurt the team.

reecedoc 07-13-2007 08:51 PM

Re: Zach Randolph + Eddy Curry is dumb and here's why.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie2k6
Couldn't agree more. Neither of them are true game changers or dominate harshly in the low post.

:applause: yeah what he said, hahaha

thenextgreatbigman 07-13-2007 08:54 PM

Re: Zach Randolph + Eddy Curry is dumb and here's why.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by VCDrivesAPorscheToWork
Isiah believes he has the modern version of Tim Duncan and David Robinson.


but don't tell him that... this at least gives the Nets at least 3 free wins each season

The nets are getting old and at this point have nothing in the post.

When you look at it they're in one of the worst positions right now, their only 2 guys that can actually play will be done in 4 years. Jefferson is not a franchise player and they have no real young talent.

geeWiz15 07-13-2007 08:54 PM

Re: Zach Randolph + Eddy Curry is dumb and here's why.
 
Quote:

Isiah believes he has the modern version of Tim Duncan and David Robinson.
Isiah would. Too bad both players are all-time historically great at the following:

1. Passing from the post
2. Man defense
3. Help defense
4. Leadership, integrity, discipline
5. Teamwork

Also too bad Robinson wasn't a post player. And consider they had one of the best coaches to ever do it on the sidelines and a fitting group of supporting players comfortable in their roles.

Rockets(T-mac) 07-13-2007 08:56 PM

Re: Zach Randolph + Eddy Curry is dumb and here's why.
 
I was wonder the same thing. They would have to come up a very complicated system to incorporate both players, and even then like you said one of the players skills will be wasted. And I doubt that Isiah is smart enough to come up with a system like that any way. I don't know whay Isiah is thinking he just gets players at random never seems like he thinks about chemistry or anything.:ohwell:

geeWiz15 07-13-2007 08:57 PM

Re: Zach Randolph + Eddy Curry is dumb and here's why.
 
Quote:

The nets are getting old and at this point have nothing in the post.

When you look at it they're in one of the worst positions right now, their only 2 guys that can actually play will be done in 4 years. Jefferson is not a franchise player and they have no real young talent.
Defensive are we? Who is talking about the Nets?

That kind of bugs me. I'll say something like, "The Heat are in terrible shape right now for the future outside of D-Wade" and all the Heat fans will rebuke me within 5 minutes with: "HOW ABOUT THE WIZARDS HUH? HOW ABOUT A SWEEP IN THE PLAYOFFS EH? WE GOT RINGZ *****EZ! WHY DON'T YOU GO SHOPPING AND PURCHASE YOURSELF A POST PRESENCE. WADE OWNZ GILBO EVERY TIME."

It's true but not relevant.

JalenRawley 07-13-2007 09:05 PM

Re: Zach Randolph + Eddy Curry is dumb and here's why.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by geeWiz15
Logically, the best case scenario turns Zach Randolph into almost a full-time midrange jumpshooter offensively. And that brings me to the final reason this trade is stupid: in the *best case scenario*, a player's talents are wasted. You obviously can't have 2 guys posting up on the block with the ball simultaneously. One guy is going to have to step out and one guy is going to have to occupy the block and only one of these players can step out and that's Randolph. Also consider: what about Quentin Richardson? He, too, is best when he is posting up. Then you've got Stephon Marbury, who is best when he's penetrating and has the ball in his hands. Where will there be room?


I don't have a lot of time, but I wanted to respond to this in particular before going.

People keep talking about Randolph being a "low post scorer", yet more and more over the last couple seasons, Randolph has been in the low post less and less. People complain about him falling in love with his jumper and people complain about him being a black hole on offense.

When you're a low post scorer and you get good enough at it, you're going to command a double team. It's not easy to score in the low post against a double team. Sometimes you can split the defenders, turn away from the double, etc., there's plenty of things you can do, but the most damage you do from the low post when you're double teamed is hitting the open man with a good pass that he can catch and shoot. Randolph is a good enough low post scorer to command a double team, and he's a black hole on offense, so more and more defenders are taking away his bread and butter, aka the low post, and more and more he's taking them outside and making them respect his midrange game. So, while he is a good low post player, and he is a black hole on offense, one thing he is not is one-dimensional. He doesn't need the ball in the low post for the entire game, he can share the low post with Curry. And besides, the odds of the two of them both tearing up a team in the post in the same game just aren't that high. You can easily establish Curry in the post in the first quarter and Randolph can do whatever. Three minutes into the quarter, when Curry picks up his second foul, you can switch up and put Randolph in the post.

Marbury would actually thrive with people to pass to, as long as he's willing to pass to them. If he's in the right headspace and is making good decisions on the court, having Curry and Randolph on the floor at the same time isn't necessarily a bad thing. There's a lot of possessions in a game, and good defensive teams will take away what's working for you. When good defensive teams take either Curry or Randolph out of the game, you've got the other two to fall back on. If they take both of them out of the game, then you've got your perimeter and hustle guys to fall back on. If the perimeter guys and the hustle guys are taken out of the game as well as your low post guys, ya most likely weren't in the game to begin, and ya might as well toss the scrubs in for some much needed experience.

RecSpecs110 07-13-2007 09:06 PM

Re: Zach Randolph + Eddy Curry is dumb and here's why.
 
Now tell that whole spiel to Marbury and make him comprehend it.

RecSpecs110 07-13-2007 09:07 PM

Re: Zach Randolph + Eddy Curry is dumb and here's why.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thenextgreatbigman
The nets are getting old and at this point have nothing in the post.

When you look at it they're in one of the worst positions right now, their only 2 guys that can actually play will be done in 4 years. Jefferson is not a franchise player and they have no real young talent.


You know absolutely nothing about the Nets, let me just tell you that right now.

ALBballer 07-13-2007 09:15 PM

Re: Zach Randolph + Eddy Curry is dumb and here's why.
 
Zach is more of a mid-range shooter to begin with and plays more of the high post, while Curry plays real close the basket and tries to score within 10 feet. Offensively it sounds ideal other then the fact that both have turnover problems. What do you want Randolph to do shoot 3's? And Curry supposedly new skill this year will be a mid range shot somewhat evident from the 3 pointer he hit against the bucks.

Besides Randolph is a huge improvement over Lee and Frye offensively. He can actually shoot the ball and has actual post moves. And he can't be any worst of a defender then Frye or Lee.

Quote:

Because neither player can control the game from the post. Both can score from there rather well but neither can control the game. Neither can direct an offense.

This I actually agree with. Curry thought process goes something like this:
1)Ok there's one defender on me, let me try to post up and score
2) There's 2 defenders in my area let me just pass it out.

He needs to learn how to get deep in the post and punish team for doubling him by passing it out to the open man. But sadly once he goes in motion with his post move, he's not giving up the rock

Quote:

Also consider: what about Quentin Richardson? He, too, is best

He used to be his best at posting up, but these days Q-Rich is a spot up shooter. And I think he will continue this trend coming off another season from injury.

thenextgreatbigman 07-13-2007 09:20 PM

Re: Zach Randolph + Eddy Curry is dumb and here's why.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RecSpecs110
You know absolutely nothing about the Nets, let me just tell you that right now.

sure i don't, i only saw over 60 of their games last season. And have been doing so for the last 3-4 seasons.

Marcus Williams is the only young guy on that team that has potential to do anything in this league and he will never be a star. He was nice at Uconn but hasn't proved **** last season.

Adams, Boone and wright couldn't buy minute on a squad with no depth. From what i've seen they will never be much more than backups.

We'll have to wait and see what happens with sean williams. Even at this point everyone knows that he won't be someone that you can give the ball to on offense.

Collins is a soli defender but has a horrible contract and no team will take him.

Nenad and nachbar are both solid contributors. Nenad is a bit too soft for a guy on a team with no other big man.

Jefferson is a good 3rg option and he'll stay that way for the rest of his career. Ha'd his run as the number one option when kidd got hurt and shot under 40% while putting up a lot of turnovers.

Carter and Kidd are great but won't last too long.


So what will your franchise lean on a few years from now?


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:58 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy