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-   -   Why Do Only Kobe Fans Use the "Duncan's Team" Argument? (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52918)

Hardtop Hero 08-16-2007 12:11 PM

Why Do Only Kobe Fans Use the "Duncan's Team" Argument?
 
Seriously. This has to be the stupidest argument of all time, and 99% of the time it's Kobe Bryant fans that use it. WHY? They try to make it seem like all Duncan has had has been Hall of Fame stocked teams his whole career and that's the ONLY reason he wins and is a great player. Meanwhile, why don't they talk about the talent Kobe had on the 3peat Laker teams? Has Duncan EVER had a player like a prime Shaq on his team?

The David Robinson thing is a FALLACY created by mental midgets. By the time Duncan got there, Robinson was PAST his prime. Not only was he hindered by injuries, but he was also much older. He put up 8ppg and 7rb during the second title!!! How the hell can anyone pretend those were HOF numbers???

Also, something they never address is if we should start taking away from Larry Bird, Magic, Russell and anyone else who played on stacked teams. They never answer this point.

Why is it different for Bird, Magic and Russell than it is for Duncan? The intellectual inferiority of the argument is what irritates me the most because it's not born of actually debating something. It's born of trying to take away from a player to boost another using flawed logic. It's just garbage debating.

IllegalD 08-16-2007 12:22 PM

Re: Why Do Only Kobe Fans Use the "Duncan's Team" Argument?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardtop Hero
Also, something they never address is if we should start taking away from Larry Bird, Magic, Russell and anyone else who played on stacked teams. They never answer this point.

Why is it different for Bird, Magic and Russell than it is for Duncan? The intellectual inferiority of the argument is what irritates me the most because it's not born of actually debating something. It's born of trying to take away from a player to boost another using flawed logic. It's just garbage debating.


You mean like how Kobe-h@ters try to take away from Kobe's 3 rings, because he played with a domimnant/HOF big-man? Even though throughout the threepeat years, he sacrificed his awesome individual talents to facillitate the complex triangle offense (essentially playing the Pippen-facilitator role), thus making Shaq and the rest of his teammates better, and at the same time being the team's best perimeter-defensive player (at times guarding much smaller/quicker guards like MightyMouse and AI), AND having to take over offensively in the 4th when Shaq was a liability at the FT-line?

Yeah..........

Funny how these double-standards only apply to Kobe...

Yet:

Magic (never won a ring WITHOUT Kareem, and played with a stacked Hall-of-Fame team)
Bird (stacked Hall of fame team; best frontcourt with McHale, Parish, and Walton off the bench)
Big O (never won a ring without Kareem)
Dr. J (wasn't even the best player on the team where he won a ring [Moses Malone was])
Jerry West (Wilt)

NEVER get their championship credentials discredited because they played with dominant Big-men and/or other Hall-of-Famers.

:confusedshrug:

Hardtop Hero 08-16-2007 12:25 PM

Re: Why Do Only Kobe Fans Use the "Duncan's Team" Argument?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IllegalD
You mean like how Kobe-h@ters try to take away from Kobe's 3 rings, because he played with a domimnant/HOF big-man? Even though throughout the threepeat years, he sacrificed his awesome individual talents to facillitate the complex triangle offense (essentially playing the Pippen-facilitator role), thus making Shaq and the rest of his teammates better, and at the same time being the team's best perimeter-defensive player (at times guarding much smaller/quicker guards like MightyMouse and AI), AND having to take over offensively in the 4th when Shaq was a liability at the FT-line?

Yeah..........

Funny how these double-standards only apply to Kobe...

Yet:

Magic (never won a ring WITHOUT Kareem, and played with a stacked Hall-of-Fame team)
Bird (stacked Hall of fame team; best frontcourt with McHale, Parish, and Walton off the bench)
Big O (never won a ring without Kareem)
Dr. J (wasn't even the best player on the team where he won a ring [Moses Malone was])
Jerry West (Wilt)

NEVER get their championship credentials discredited because they played with dominant Big-men and/or other Hall-of-Famers.

:confusedshrug:


A. It's simple. No one with any sense "takes away" from Kobe's titles. They point out that he was the secondary player on those teams NOT THE franchise player/MVP. If he wants to get credit as that type of player, he needs to win some in that role. Why is that so hard to understand?

B. You didn't answer my question. You just vented your pent up "Kobe gets no respect" rage. Do you want to try actually answering the topic now?

Optimus Prime 08-16-2007 12:28 PM

Re: Why Do Only Kobe Fans Use the "Duncan's Team" Argument?
 
Because during the time that Kobe has been the Lakers' franchise player, the rest of his team has been pure garbage. Meanwhile, Tim Duncan has been the Spurs' franchise player for a long time, and he has always been surrounded with AT THE VERY LEAST serviceable teammates.

Tim Duncan is a very good player, but he has also been blessed with better teammates and especially a very good (regarded by some as the best in the league) front office. Kobe has had Kupcake trading away Shaq for Odom and Kwame Brown...

:banghead:

The reason that most reasonable Kobe fans (such as myself) point out Kobe's teammates since Shaq left town is because Kupcake has turned that once proud franchise into a joke. Anybody who argues that Kobe has had had a good team these past few years is seriously :hammerhead:

Hardtop Hero 08-16-2007 12:31 PM

Re: Why Do Only Kobe Fans Use the "Duncan's Team" Argument?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Optimus Prime
Because during the time that Kobe has been the Lakers' franchise player, the rest of his team has been pure garbage. Meanwhile, Tim Duncan has been the Spurs' franchise player for a long time, and he has always been surrounded with AT THE VERY LEAST serviceable teammates.

Tim Duncan is a very good player, but he has also been blessed with better teammates and especially a very good (regarded by some as the best in the league) front office. Kobe has had Kupcake trading away Shaq for Odom and Kwame Brown...

:banghead:

The reason that most reasonable Kobe fans (such as myself) point out Kobe's teammates since Shaq left town is because Kupcake has turned that once proud franchise into a joke. Anybody who argues that Kobe has had had a good team these past few years is seriously :hammerhead:


Any reason why the overwhelming majority of the time it's Kobe fans that use the "his team" argument to discredit Duncan?

I don't see fans of any other teams/players doing it. Or at least nowhere NEAR the regularity I see it being used for Kobe.

Also, NEITHER of you answered my questions about Bird, Magic and Russell.

Now do you see why I call this argument garbage? You guys won't even address the questions I presented, nor will you explain why it's overwhelmingly Bryant fans who argue this.

Hardtop Hero 08-16-2007 12:32 PM

Re: Why Do Only Kobe Fans Use the "Duncan's Team" Argument?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BULLS
Why do Duncan fans use the "those are Shaq's rings argument" while ignoring the fact that:

1. Duncan won a title during a lockout season

2. Duncan has played with one of the greatest perimeter defenders of this generation

3. Duncan has played with an all-star(or if you hate that word, a very very good) PG.

4. Duncan has played with the greatest 57th pick in NBA history

5. Duncan benefited from a cheap suspension(Amare) because we have one of the most foolish commissioners in sports history.


Kobe > Duncan


You = Troll. I will ignore anything you write from here on out so dont' even bother. And what a surprise, yet ANOTHER person who comes into this thread and doesn't address the points made.

IllegalD 08-16-2007 12:43 PM

Re: Why Do Only Kobe Fans Use the "Duncan's Team" Argument?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardtop Hero
Any reason why the overwhelming majority of the time it's Kobe fans that use the "his team" argument to discredit Duncan?


Any reason why u started this topic about "Kobe fans", when there's aleady a perfectly good Duncan/Kobe argument going on in the "Bird said Kobe is the best" thread?

Optimus Prime 08-16-2007 12:45 PM

Re: Why Do Only Kobe Fans Use the "Duncan's Team" Argument?
 
Yet you're totally ignoring OUR arguments...doing the same thing you're whining about. Hypocrisy much?

Bird's teams, Magic's teams, Russell's teams, Duncan's teams, etc. etc. ad nauseum, were NOWHERE NEAR AS BAD AS KOBE'S TEAM POST SHAQ IS. Bolded and underlined for emphasis so you might get it. Your comparisons are horrible and illogical.

What is so hard to understand about that? Yikes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardtop Hero
Any reason why the overwhelming majority of the time it's Kobe fans that use the "his team" argument to discredit Duncan?

I don't see fans of any other teams/players doing it. Or at least nowhere NEAR the regularity I see it being used for Kobe.

Also, NEITHER of you answered my questions about Bird, Magic and Russell.

Now do you see why I call this argument garbage? You guys won't even address the questions I presented, nor will you explain why it's overwhelmingly Bryant fans who argue this.


SRZ66 08-16-2007 12:47 PM

Re: Why Do Only Kobe Fans Use the "Duncan's Team" Argument?
 
maybe because the spurs are stacked with great players and a great coach, while the lakers have 1 good player? sounds like a legit argurment to me. a good way to discredit duncan is to look how he played in the olympics...

Hardtop Hero 08-16-2007 12:54 PM

Re: Why Do Only Kobe Fans Use the "Duncan's Team" Argument?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IllegalD
Any reason why u started this topic about "Kobe fans", when there's aleady a perfectly good Duncan/Kobe argument going on in the "Bird said Kobe is the best" thread?


So you're just not going to address the questions I asked, huh. So why did you reply to this topic then? Just to spout bullshyt?

IllegalD 08-16-2007 12:55 PM

Re: Why Do Only Kobe Fans Use the "Duncan's Team" Argument?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SRZ66
maybe because the spurs are stacked with great players and a great coach, while the lakers have 1 good player? sounds like a legit argurment to me. a good way to discredit duncan is to look how he played in the olympics...


:applause:

NAIL... meet HEAD...

Once Duncan didn't have the protection of Stern and his ref-croonies in FIBA competition, he folded like a nervous middle-schooler $hitting his pants during a school play.

Duncan might be one of the most if not THE most coddled NBA player/athlete in the history of sports.

He's right up there with Jordan and Gretzky in terms of the protection the officials afford him, and the benefit-of-the-doubt calls he gets.

Funny how after he got EXPOSED in international competition he VOWED never to play for Team USA again.

SoCalMike 08-16-2007 12:57 PM

Re: Why Do Only Kobe Fans Use the "Duncan's Team" Argument?
 
Oh no, not another thread where Kobe h*ters and Kobe gr*upies go on endlessly trying to prove each other wrong...

:pimp:

Hardtop Hero 08-16-2007 12:58 PM

Re: Why Do Only Kobe Fans Use the "Duncan's Team" Argument?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Optimus Prime
Yet you're totally ignoring OUR arguments...doing the same thing you're whining about. Hypocrisy much?


Are you that dense? When someone creates a topic, you come in and ANSWER the point of that topic. Something you failed to do. Why would I address what you've said until you answer the point of the thread??

Why would you come into a thread with no intention of addressing the topic?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Optimus Prime
Bird's teams, Magic's teams, Russell's teams, Duncan's teams, etc. etc. ad nauseum, were NOWHERE NEAR AS BAD AS KOBE'S TEAM POST SHAQ IS. Bolded and underlined for emphasis so you might get it. Your comparisons are horrible and illogical.

What is so hard to understand about that? Yikes.


I guess you are that dense. My question is WHY DON'T PEOPLE DISCREDIT BIRD, MAGIC, RUSSELL BECAUSE OF THE TEAMS THEY PLAYED ON LIKE THEY ATTEMPT TO DO WITH DUNCAN.

Do you really have that much trouble with reading comprehension?

Hardtop Hero 08-16-2007 01:00 PM

Re: Why Do Only Kobe Fans Use the "Duncan's Team" Argument?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IllegalD
:applause:

NAIL... meet HEAD...

Once Duncan didn't have the protection of Stern and his ref-croonies in FIBA competition, he folded like a nervous middle-schooler $hitting his pants during a school play.

Duncan might be one of the most if not THE most coddled NBA player/athlete in the history of sports.

He's right up there with Jordan and Gretzky in terms of the protection the officials afford him, and the benefit-of-the-doubt calls he gets.

Funny how after he got EXPOSED in international competition he VOWED never to play for Team USA again.


God, another troll. I wish you would have exposed yourself as such sooner.

But it's good that the intelligence level of the people who endorse that argument is being exposed.

So far, not a single coherrent defense of this argument has been presented in this thread. Just a bunch of people typing nonsense.

Pretty much what I expected.

Optimus Prime 08-16-2007 01:02 PM

Re: Why Do Only Kobe Fans Use the "Duncan's Team" Argument?
 
The part YOU don't get is that people do NOT discredit Duncan based on his team until Duncan fanbois bring up the "4 rings" argument. In which case Kobe fans point out Kobe's 3 rings. In which case, Duncan fanbois point out that those are really Shaq's rings. Then Duncan fanbois say "If Kobe is so good, why isn't he winning now while Duncan is winning?" The answer is obvious: Duncan's team is better.

This topic shouldn't exist because you exhibit the inability to understand basic concepts.

Peace out!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardtop Hero
Are you that dense? When someone creates a topic, you come in and ANSWER the point of that topic. Something you failed to do. Why would I address what you've said until you answer the point of the thread??

Why would you come into a thread with no intention of addressing the topic?



I guess you are that dense. My question is WHY DON'T PEOPLE DISCREDIT BIRD, MAGIC, RUSSELL BECAUSE OF THE TEAMS THEY PLAYED ON LIKE THEY ATTEMPT TO DO WITH DUNCAN.

Do you really have that much trouble with reading comprehension?



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