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-   -   gary payton or john stockton? (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5980)

RainierBeachPoet 07-22-2006 11:25 AM

gary payton or john stockton?
 
who was a better point guard over the span of their careers: gp or john stockton?

please consider the following areas:

stats
championships/championship runs
intangibles
running their perspective teams

please dont let the following dominate:

personality
homerism

WADE MONEY 07-22-2006 11:29 AM

stockton regularly averaged 18 pts / 14 assists / 3.5 stls / 55% fg in his prime and played 82 games for most of his seasons

Payton had a couple seasons of 20/10/2.5 stls and was probably the best defensive PG of all time

They're pretty evenly matched but I think Stockton takes the WOW factor in terms of stats

JordanPippenRodman 07-22-2006 11:32 AM

Stockton hands down. I lost respect for GP when he started riding other player's coatails to try and win that ring. stockton played a major role for the jazz until the day he retired. payton has been playing 3rd string roles for years now, he sucks compared to a true PG like John Stockton.

Juvenile 07-22-2006 12:47 PM

Stockton is the better PG, and Payton is the better player, ability/talent-wise. Stockton was way more efficient, a great decision maker and knew how to run a great team. Never missed the playoffs.

StabMasterArson 07-22-2006 01:04 PM

Stockton is better.

The best pure point gaurd ever.

mika 07-22-2006 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juvenile
Stockton is the better PG, and Payton is the better player, ability/talent-wise. Stockton was way more efficient, a great decision maker and knew how to run a great team. Never missed the playoffs.

being the second all time leader in turnovers is efficient?

ALBballer 07-22-2006 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mika
being the second all time leader in turnovers is efficient?


In order to hit homeruns, you have to get used to striking out.

SomeBunghole 07-22-2006 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mika
being the second all time leader in turnovers is efficient?


Ok, if you're gonna judge them by stats, fine.

John Stockton's assist-per-turnover ratio -- 4.84
John Stockton's steal-per-turnover ratio -- 0.77


Gary Payton's assist-per-turnover ratio -- 2.96
Gary Payton's steal-per-turnover ratio -- 0.81

If Stockton was in his prime today, I'm sure Isiah would be trying to convince the league to offer him a quadruple-max contract. And he'd almost be justified in it.

KWALI 07-22-2006 02:35 PM

Is that career? anyhow....Judging someone as a PG is purely a offensive argument.....defense is not a role that affects your skill or ability as a PG only as a complete player.......I don't wanna go through all that but you should understand that PG's QB teh offense everthing else they do is a a basketball skill just like any other player. SO someon can be a better rebounder, athlete, defender even scorer (although that is related) and still not be a better PG.

So PG wise STOCKTON is better....HOwever GP is teh better overall player and regularly dominated STOCKTON....I shoudln't say Regularly but enough to show he was superior when they matched up mano a mano as a player.

KnicksFan4Life 07-22-2006 02:37 PM

Stockton ran his team better, so he takes the title

AppleNader 07-22-2006 02:38 PM

>

SixerFan03 07-22-2006 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainierBeachPoet
who was a better point guard over the span of their careers: gp or john stockton?

please consider the following areas:

stats Stockton - all time leader in assists and steals
championships/championship runs Stockton - OK, Payton did win one in Miami and went to one with LA, but he rode coattails on those. In their primes, Stockton's 2 finals apperances in '97 and '98 are greater than Payton's apperance in '96.
intangibles Does defense count as an intangible?
running their perspective teams *Respective, not perspective. And Stockton


That's how I would do break it down. Stockton.

tydal 07-22-2006 02:54 PM

Stockton
 
stats:
championships/championship runs: stockton went to the finals twice in his career, GP has been to three but was only top three on his team for one of them. So I give the edge to Stockton.

intangibles: I know a lot of people would say GP for his fire and defense but Stockton was a pain for lots of guys. He would just lay the wood to opposing power forwards all th time despite being a foot shorter.

running their perspective teams: Stockton ran his team as well as one could expect, GP was less effective yet on the defensive side he gave Seattle its identity. So I'd say its even here.

Overall I'd say its Stockton but GP deserves to be amongst the top 10 guards of all time.

Glove_20 07-22-2006 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WADE MONEY
stockton regularly averaged 18 pts / 14 assists / 3.5 stls / 55% fg in his prime and played 82 games for most of his seasons

Payton had a couple seasons of 20/10/2.5 stls and was probably the best defensive PG of all time

They're pretty evenly matched but I think Stockton takes the WOW factor in terms of stats

Wow

Stockton never got to 18ppg or 3.5spg...And he got over 55% only once...

At the same time, Payton never got to 10apg, but did more than just 20ppg...

Glove_20 07-22-2006 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWALI
Is that career? anyhow....Judging someone as a PG is purely a offensive argument.....defense is not a role that affects your skill or ability as a PG only as a complete player.......I don't wanna go through all that but you should understand that PG's QB teh offense everthing else they do is a a basketball skill just like any other player. SO someon can be a better rebounder, athlete, defender even scorer (although that is related) and still not be a better PG.

So PG wise STOCKTON is better....HOwever GP is teh better overall player and regularly dominated STOCKTON....I shoudln't say Regularly but enough to show he was superior when they matched up mano a mano as a player.

I think that is more of..."Pure PG"

A "Pure PG" all he needs to is be able to pass basically and shoot high %s when he tries to score...

But PG can be different...


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