View Single Post
Old 09-02-2006, 06:20 AM   #8
hotsizzle
Superstar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: WINNING!
Posts: 9,843
hotsizzle has an incredible reputation herehotsizzle has an incredible reputation herehotsizzle has an incredible reputation herehotsizzle has an incredible reputation herehotsizzle has an incredible reputation herehotsizzle has an incredible reputation herehotsizzle has an incredible reputation here
Default

Writing Style is fine man, can fully understand.

Quote:
Raja has some offensive game , a little more then avg. I would say and Kobe, Wade and Tmac probably have a little better defense then a average player. So I would say they match up pretty well. Offense is looked upon as more valuable in todays NBA where fewer points are scored. Sorry to get off topic because it seems like we arguing which is better offense or Defense. Let me ask you this Sizz , Do you think Perimeter defenders are more important then Inside Defenders? I mean once you get past the first line of defense you have to have someone who can stop that person.

Thing is Tmac, wade, kobe will always always have the upper hand on raja because of how well rounded they are, they don’t just score..so any sane person would choose them over raja. Now if we match raja against a player who purely scores, then that would be a fair comparison. Perimeter defenders are more important than inside defenders imo…because the game today is dominated by perimeter players who have been given free spirit with the handchecking rules and once the perimeter defender gets beaten, the opposing player has many options…dish it out, drive the lane, or get to the foul line…moreover, inside defenders can get into foul trouble. Perimeter defenders can also dictate game tempo and disrupt passing lanes…but anyways the argument here isn’t inside vs. outside…

Quote:
Same goes for a Offensive perimeter player my friend. Him scoring buckets lets the other players get back on defensive without using much energy on the offensive side. I know its not the argument that team defense is more improtant then indivdiual offense but lets compare because this can be worked into the equation.

Team Defense is better then a individuals abitlty to play defense thats a known fact but When it comes to Team Offense or Perimeter Offense a player can make up for that whole offense .....So what I'm saying is Team Offense = A individual offense sometimes because that one player has the skills to take over the whole game from outside. That player is not required to maybe guard 2 players out on the perimeter which can be impossible but he can shoot over numerous good perimeter defenders with ease there .Get what I'm saying here a little bit? A players Perimeter offense can take control of the game more so then a perimeter defenders defense.

Ok, let me use an example here. Say you have a player like raja bell and the opposition is dwyane wade. Raja is doing a great job on wade, gettin in his face on every shot, staying in front of him..etc, this will supply phx with great oppurtunites for rebounds/fastbreak points and will prevent miami from functioning well. Now lets say wade is serving raja up, buckets after buckets…phx offense will come down and do what it does best and score. Why? Because miami may not have a shut down perimeter defender they can fall back to…

Quote:
No it doesn't when you think about it as a whole. The argument that inside defenders are more valuable then perimeter defenders comes into because inside defenders make perimeter defenders less important because they are the last line of defense and basically guard where most of the points in a game are scored. So it basically just takes away the vaule of a perimeter defender. The hand checking rule makes perimeter defenders less valuable .The hand checking rule now basically defines whether you are a good defender or not. Man to man (without help d) defense really doesn't do all that much for teams now because of the rule.

The handchecking rules makes shutdown perimeter defenders rarer because not many players can shut you down with the new rules that are implemented. The less of something there is, the more valuable it becomes. Besides, there are a lot of big time scorers today..the league needs more perimeter defenders. Swingmen that can score are pretty much found on every team. The lack of perimeter defenders allows for this trend of perimeter scoring to continue and the handchecking rules aren’t helping the issue.

Quote:
Yes but virtaully having a great perimeter scorer also does alot of the same things for the other end of the floor but doesn't have to endure as much energy because the offensive side takes less energy but is in a alot of cases harder to obtain( Having a good perimeter offense game rather then good perimeter defense).

Teams need to put up points to win obviously but it is often key defensive plays that decide the outcome. If you need a player to get you 25 pts a night..thats easy nowadays, but having someone like artest, bowen is rare…having someone that can step in and face the opposition is better than having someone try to outscore the opposition. For example, having a dude like artest play lebron straight up (offense vs. defense) is usually better for your team than having a lebron/tmac go at it point by point..sure its more exciting for the fans, but shutting down a big time scorer disrupts their whole team offensively whereas scoring in bunches may be countered.

Quote:
The part where you said the Spurs and Pistons don't have big perimeter scorers is wrong. The Pistons rely on Billups and Hamiton outside shots . The Spurs have Ginobli who is a big time perimeter scorer , he gets alot of points from the inside but a majority of them come behind the foul line and the 3 point line.

Top playoff scorers

2003 Spurs

Duncan 24.7
Parker 14.7
S. Jackson 12.8
Manu 9.4


2005 Spurs

Duncan 23.6
Manu 20.8
Parker 17.2


2004 Pistons

Richard Hamilton 21.6
Chauncey Billups 16.4


Now, the backcourt may combine for a lot of points but the points each scorer aren’t considered “big time”…big time scorers are around 24+ imo but if you remember, what was the one constant in all those teams Defense…


Quote:
Perimeter Scorers are more important also because they are the Stars. They are made into stars because they can shoot from the perimeter. Stars aren;t Bruce Bowen or James Posey. There abilities on defense just don't match and don't have the affect as what Kobe or Tmac Perimeter Offense do on the the other side.
Good hard nosed defenders ? Never seen one on a nightly basis in my entire life but I have seen guys like Kobe, Allen that go for 20-30 pts nightly basis.

Stars are defined by putting up points because that’s what the fans want to see. Players like bowen, posey do things that only game film can tell. Kobe, Tmac may put up 40 a night but you also must consider their FG%, their turnovers/assists ratio, etc…defensive perimeter players affect the game mentally, good defenders will alter the tempo, make it harder for the scorer to function within the team offense…


Quote:
Well great perimeter defenders might be rare but they are not needed in this age when the handchecking rule lets great scorers by pass people.Great perimeter defender or not you are not going to stop KOBE , LEBRON,R. ALLEN in all 3 games you play them maybe 1 or if you're lucky enough 2 but never 3, the offense gifted player is much more likely to score his points rather then you stopping him.

Of course they are needed, they are needed more than ever. The game has become lopsided. Player score at will...every swingman in the league had a career yr last yr. tony parker damn near led the league in FG%. More Perimeter defenders are needed to fix this, or it’s going to become a clinic of players running around shooting all day. Perimeter defenders dictate the tempo and flow of the game, they set the tone for the defensive unit. Kobe,lebron,tmac can score all they want but it wont necessarily be efficient scoring, their TOs may be high, and it can ultimately affect the outcome of the game…its not just a matter of points vs. no points…

Last edited by hotsizzle : 09-02-2006 at 06:27 AM.
hotsizzle is offline   Reply With Quote