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Old 04-17-2012, 06:23 AM   #65
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Default Re: Aren't the "Occupy" people basically just giant IRS bitches?

Originally Posted by Rasheed1

Im not a fan of our current government... but government is not inherently evil.

you act like the idea of government is evil.. the idea of taxes isnt even evil.

if you wanna be alone go live in the woods like the unibomber.

Stealing is immoral, correct? And what is stealing? Stealing is to take someones property without their consent. Taxation is even worse than stealing, because it's taking property without consent.. backed up by the threat of violence. Whether you think taxation/government is a positive or negative for society as a whole, is irrelevant when we talk about the morality.

Does that make government 'evil'? Maybe, but I won't open up that can of worms. I'll stick to arguing that it's immoral, which seems to be hard to refute. Unless you disagree that stealing is immoral.

I do not want to go live alone in the woods, and I assure you I'm nothing like the unibomber. ;)

you cannot live in a civilized society without having a system of order that is supposed to work for the good of everyone.

government can be a positive thing if the majority of the people take responsibility for shaping it in their image..

So the unarmed people, are to somehow shape the government? May I ask you, which side has the military? Which side has the power to make laws? Which side has the legal right to steal? Which side do corporations want to bribe?

America is the greatest example that shaping the government is impossible. You live here, you should know that. We started with the Articles of Confederation. A few years later the Constitution was created to strengthen federal power. Immediately, the federal government tried to establish a central bank. Within decades, the federal government waged the most bloody war in our history, against individual states. Within 100 years, we had public school and an income tax. Today, just over 200 years later, we have the biggest empire in human history, an executive branch that can start offensive wars and legally assassinate citizens, a national debt that is impossible to pay off, and a social security bubble that will soon pop and leave thousands of people with no retirement funds.

How do you propose the people keep this monster in its cage? Because I don't see it. If the early American ideals weren't good enough.. what would be?

we can be free, but you cannot do it by isolating yourself and thinking too hard on the individual terms... People are individuals and they need to be respected as such.... but people need to also learn how to work together and build a society that is positive for all of us... you cant do that by yourself...

We as Americans go overboard with the individualism stuff...

I don't see myself as an individualist at all. Social cooperation is one of the biggest keys to human prosperity, I'd say.

Cooperation is two or more parties, mutually agreeing to take some action. What, didn't 90+% of US citizens not want the bank bailouts? But they happened anyway. A large chunk of the country doesn't support the military budget being so high.. but it keeps getting bigger. Where is the cooperation in this system?

The government is anti-cooperation. Because cooperation ceases to exist when you add violent force to the equation. It's like a boyfriend threatening to beat up his girlfriend if she doesn't do the dishes. If she does the dishes, is that cooperation?
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