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Old 04-17-2012, 09:51 AM   #69
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 13433 km from Land of 2 Rings
Posts: 6,169
Default Re: Aren't the "Occupy" people basically just giant IRS bitches?

Originally Posted by joe
Don't fall into that trap. "If the government didn't do it, it wouldn't get done." The point of the police, and the national defense.. is not for the government to run the police, and the national defense. The point is to protect us, both from local criminals and foreign governments. In the absence of a government, the desire for protection would not disappear.

I've read some awesome suggestions for how both police and national defense could be done, sans government. I'm convinced that it's entirely possible and would be better. I'm not saying you'll come to the same conclusions I did, but definitely don't assume that just because the government wasn't there to do something, it wouldn't get done.

Your head (and mine) has been filled with bologna since day one. Every thing the government currently does, we're fed nonsense that voluntary people were impotent in accomplishing something, and so the government strutted in and saved the day. Food safety, work conditions, child labor, school, black employment. We are constantly made to believe, that without violent force, human beings just pick their noses and nothing gets done. People would be eating rotten meat without government, kids would be working 20 hour days in factories, the adults would have no vacation time or weekends. It's non-sense. All of it.

Fine, then I completely and utterly disagree with you. Here's a funny video to begin with:

I found this excerpt on an article arguing that 'To End war, Privatise National defence' which has a scene of a nation without national defence or a police force, which I imagine is something close to what you may imagine privatised police force would be:

I’m going to ask you to do something very difficult. I want you to envision a United States without any kind of coercively-funded government. Imagine that all that exists is a land mass with private businesses and residences populating it. Peace and property rights are protected by individual armed citizens or by companies like ADT and Brinks Home Security. Private security guards are the only “police” in this nation.

Since there is no state, there are no drug laws or any other laws that violate property rights. The only exception being that you can’t use your property to violate someone else’s property or rights. So I couldn’t dump the toxic waste from my factory in such a way as to damage my neighbors’ property or I would be facing a lawsuit in a “loser pays” private court and possibly some not-so-friendly visits from a private security agency that was hired by my neighbor’s insurance company to halt the damage I’m doing to his property.

If it isn't what you are thinking, then please disregard.

But firstly, what the fuck is this nonsense that somehow, each person can afford to hire private security contractors? And this?

I would be facing a lawsuit in a “loser pays” private court and possibly some not-so-friendly visits from a private security agency that was hired by my neighbor’s insurance company to halt the damage I’m doing to his property.

so basically, what you get is a nation where the richest effectively have their own army and can do whatever they like, since the private court is determined by how many men I can hire?

the WHOLE FUCKING POINT of public goods is that each person consumes an EXACT AND EQUAL amount of said good! The police force is shared out equally between all people within that country, and the same goes for the defence force, if China attacks the US, the US Army can't go 'Ok right, you Californian citizens aren't allowed to be protected by the Army, but the Floridian ones are'.

Again, if this isn't that 'awesome suggestions' that you've read, then please do ignore and bring those up. Now, am I saying police forces around the world are perfect? Hell no. In fact, there are some cases where private police forces are shown to be be more efficient than public ones, and on the other hand, you have the moral quandary of whether crime should be up to the profit incentive, rather than stopping it at all costs. But it's also important to note that when private police forces are used, guess who's employing them? It's still usually the local government. To replace them public police force entirely? I think that's ludicrous.

also please stop thinking I'm American or something, I grew up in one of the most laissez-faire places in the world- Hong Kong.

Last edited by brantonli : 04-17-2012 at 10:53 AM.
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