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Old 09-29-2012, 07:16 AM   #289
Decent college freshman
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,572
Default Re: Barkley: I'm better than Malone

Nash had the best regular season of his career and the best a point guard has had in the 2 plus decades since Magic's first retirement with the exception of maybe Chris Paul in '08 and '09.
filth statement. every year there has been atleast 1 point guard with a better regular season than steve nash in 2007.
Arenas didn't play in the playoffs due to an injury. If you want to drop him because of that then that's fine.
i didn't drop him, he stayed where he was. kidd, however, was promoted.
They faced another 40-42 team in the WCF and regardless of Houston's record, they had an elite player themselves like Orlando did, but unlike Orlando, they had some solid talent around him, remember Calvin Murphy dropped like 45 to eliminate the Spurs?
they also faced and beat defending champion los angeles lakers in the first round, then they faced and beat 2nd seed san antonio, on top of beating 62 win boston in the finals. the fact remains. it had happened in the past with a team with a worse record than the orlando magic.
8th is just laughable considering the type of season T-Mac had that year, but you are right about a lot of players having great seasons. Duncan, Garnett, Shaq and Kobe especially, while Kidd had his best year and Dirk took his game to another level.
he can't possibly be ranked any higher given the circumstances, unfortunately for tmac.
It was important obviously, but it doesn't change who Gooden was as a player. Gooden was talented, but not a great player. I won't say he didn't belong on an NBA roster, but this is a rookie version of the same player who was part of the '07 Cavs team you called "trash" except Gooden was arguably the second best player on this team, while he was no more than 4th best on the '07 Cavs and that Cavs team was also the polar opposite of Orlando in defense and rebounding, they were elite in both categories while Orlando sucked in both categories.

So what do you think a cast that can't defend or rebound and has a rookie Drew Gooden as the 2nd best player is? Trash.
ofcourse, but at the end of the day players are ranked on what they achieve and how they are able to perform. the players on the cavs roster that were better than gooden were only slightly better than him, and lebron led his trash team to the nba finals and was the second most impressive player out of every individual who participated in the playoffs, mcgrady on the other hand lost in the first round after going up 3-1 mostly due to his lack of showing up, and wasn't even the most impressive player on his own team.
Decent role player. but you don't want him to be one of your top 4 players unless your top 2 players are Shaq and Kobe. Or your top 3 are Lebron/Wade/Bosh and even then, they had a better 4th guy then '03 Armstrong.

He was really one of only 4 decent players Orlando had on their postseason roster along with T-Mac and Gooden and Giricek in their rookie years. That isn't going to get it done vs a Detroit team that dominates defensively and has far more quality players than that in Ben Wallace, Rip Hamilton, Cliff Robinson, Chauncey Billups, Corliss Williamson, Mehmet Okur, Chucky Atkins and Jon Barry.

Detroit had 3 bench players who would probably start on Orlando and 4 starters who certainly would.
the pistons only had 4 players that were better than armstrong: wallace, billups, hamilton, and robinson. i have no idea why you are mentioning guys like okur and atkins.
Some players have been top 2 and plenty have at least been close to it on .500 teams.
i'll give you moses malone for what he achieved in the 1981 playoffs. off the top of my head there isn't anyone else.
Can't argue with Duncan, Garnett or Shaq, but I will destroy your other selections.

Kobe and T-Mac were very close, if you caught them on any random night, either could look better, but T-Mac wins due to a much more consistent season, better numbers even with nobody to take the pressure off of him and better team success considering the team he had.
i'll agree that they were very close. but bryant wins due being much more successful, contributing to a winning cause, kobe was actually the lakers best player in the regular season, better numbers even though he had to share the ball with shaquille o'neal and his 28ppg.
Dirk wasn't the all around player T-Mac was. T-Mac did the thing that Dirk did best(scoring) better than Dirk did while also being probably the best passer and playmaker at his position. His defense was certainly no worse than Dirk's and the only advantage Dirk had was rebounding. And a power forward grabbing 3 more rebounds than a shooting guard isn't enough to make up for everything else.
dirk was better in the regular season, and also in the playoffs. he was easily the best player on his 60-22 dallas mavericks who also made the conference finals, who lost to the eventual champion san antonio spurs, the same series in which he went down to an injury and was forced to miss the final 3 games of that series.

dirk averaged 29.9ppg, 8.9rpg, 1.6apg, 1.6spg, and 0.7bpg on 52%fg, 56%3p, and 90%ft against the portland trail blazers including a 46 point 10 rebound performance in game 1 on 16-27 from the field, 4-5 from downtown, and 10-11 from the free throw line.

after a grueling 7 game series against the powerful portland trail blazers outfit, next up was 59 win sacramento. dirk responded with 20.7ppg, 14.3rpg, 2.9apg, 0.9spg, and 1.3bpg including a huge game 7 in which he scored 30, and pulled down 19 rebounds.
Kidd is more difficult because it depends on your preference. He brought intangibles that T-Mac didn't and was a better passer and defender while also improving his shooting and scoring. But considering T-Mac was the best perimeter scorer in the league and the best playmaker at his own position, he was the more dominant player than Kidd, especially since he was much more efficient.
i will take kidd, who led his team to a 12-2 record en route to the nba finals, and was able to take 2 games off the san antonio spurs. kidd averaged 19/7/9/2 against the milwaukee bucks including a 22/11/11/3 triple double in the elimination game, 19/9/9/2 in the 4-0 sweep of the boston celtics including 29/10/8/2 in the elimination game, 24/10/6/3 in the 4-0 sweep of the detroit pistons including 26/12/7/2 in the elimination game, and 20/6/8/1 against the san antonio spurs in the finals.

easy choice here.
Ben Wallace? I like Wallace as much of the next guy, he made my top 15 for this year, iirc, but a guy whose exclusively a defender and rebounder isn't going to impact a game more than the game's best offensive player on the perimeter.
it is very close between wallace and mcgrady, some would almost say they were inseparable. i wouldn't though. and what separated these two players was how they performed in the playoffs. ben wallace was the best player on his team by the widest margin in the nba outside of tim duncan, tracy mcgrady, and kevin garnett, and was able to lead his cast to the eastern conference finals. wallace was one of the most dynamic nba players in the history of the game, and he took his game to another level in these playoffs.

against orlando he averaged 11.1ppg, 17.9rpg, 2.3apg, 3.1spg, and 3.3bpg. just crazy production right there, and if you haven't watched this series, i encourage you to do so and after you have watched the final game you will realise who was the better player between ben wallace and tracy mcgrady alone, you will need no further proof.

against philadelphia he averaged 6.2ppg, 13.8rpg, 1.2apg, 2.2spg, and 2.5bpg including a huge elimination game 6 on the sixers home court after both teams won all games on their home, wallace went to philadelphia and recorded 10 points, 18 rebounds, 5 steals, and 3 blocks.

he was back to his best against the nets, accumulating 9.0ppg, 17.3rpg, 1.3apg, 1.8spg, and 3.5bpg, but it wasn't enough to defeat the leagues 4th best player jason kidd and his new jersey nets.
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