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Old 10-05-2012, 10:39 PM   #295
7-time NBA All-Star
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Join Date: Jun 2009
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Default Re: Barkley: I'm better than Malone

Originally Posted by Shep
bottom line: proof that a 40 win team in the regular season can go far in the playoffs

You have a real problem with context, don't you?

drew gooden was the most impressive magic player in the playoffs, while mcgrady was their best. lebron made that team who they were.

Lebron, along with their defense(most of the credit for that goes to Mike Brown), and their rebounding which you can give Ilgauskas, Gooden and Varejao most of the credit for.

jacque vaughn was a nice player for orlando, as was pat garrity, shawn kemp, and gordan giricek

Jacque Vaughn is decent in a limited role. A good defender, but offensively challenged. The problem, is Armstrong at that stage of his career was also better suited to a back up role.

at calling '03 Kemp a nice player. Garrity was a good 3 point shooting, but didn't really do anything else.

moses was top 2 in '81. you are right about kareem. kobe was nowhere near top 2 in those years. wade was top 4, as was jordan.

Kobe was best each season and Wade was top 2, or at worst top 3. There's no argument for Wade being lower than top 3.

kobe's team was a disappointment during the regular season due to o'neal disrupting chemistry with a sore toe at the beginning of the season.

Shaq does deserve some of the blame, I can't dispute that. But this isn't a Shaq vs Kobe thing, it's Kobe vs T-Mac. I pretty much agree with your assessment of Shaq vs Kobe in 2003.

even in those losses in games that o'neal missed, 2 were against the nba champion san antonio spurs, also losses were against the 50 win trail blazers in portland, the celtics who made the conference semi finals in boston, and the 60 win conference finalist mavericks in dallas.

Boston was a 44-38 East team, I'd call them an average team.

Their losses also included a horrendous 17-65 Cavs team, a 35-47 Hawk team, a 37-45 Knick team and a 37-45 Wizard team.

I'll give you credit for looking into it deeper, but you only presented one side, the losses overall is pretty much split between good and bad teams with a couple of average teams thrown in. I wouldn't call the competition too tough or bad.

regardless, bryant did all he could in o'neals absence, averaging around 32/9/6 with over 2 steals per game.

His all around ball was very good, though he was now the primary focus of opposing defenses every night with nobody to take pressure off him, T-Mac faced that for an entire season and averaged 32/7/6 on 46% and 24 FGA while getting his team above .500, Kobe did it for 15 games on 43% and 27 FGA and his team had twice as many losses as wins.

all i need is more impact and winning games. contributing to a winning cause. winning games of basketball.

I'd expect Dirk to win more games with a top 2 point guard/top 15 player and all-star/all-nba guard in Nash as well as another all-star caliber player in Finley and a 4th guy in Van Exel who came off the bench compared to the trash T-Mac had. Hell, even Raef LaFrentz would be among T-Mac's best teammates, much less Dirk's 4th best player who would easily be T-Mac's second best.

kidd was the better player on the better team. what kidd did in the playoffs was more than enough evidence to suggest this.

Kidd was on a better team, you're right about that.

lol what a joke. his best players were career journeyman chauncey billups who had career averages of 11 points, 2 rebounds, 4 assists, and 40%fg, unproven 2 guard richard hamilton they had just aquired for jerry stackhouse and his 21/4/5, and 65 year old clifford robinson.

Billups had started to play well in '02 with Minnesota and continued his improvement in '03. He was definitely a solid point guard. Knew how to use his size, could shoot, defend and was becoming pretty good at running a team. He was a score-first point guard, but fit well on that team and was a legitimate threat.

Rip was already a 20 ppg scorer who didn't need the ball and he fit perfectly with Billups. Robinson was an all-defensive second team forward just the year before and a player with size who could stretch the defense with his outside shooting. Then there was Corliss Williamson who had been voted sixth man of the year the previous season and was a physical player who used his size well and was a legitimate scorer in the post and mid-range area. And the team had several other solid role players which I believed I mentioned.

yao was barely top 5, not clear. marcus camby was very, very close. besides that the magic and rockets were very much the same, given the same system and coach. drew gooden almost was as good as yao in the playoffs.

at Camby being close. It's pretty simple, T-Mac's '05 team was an elite defense as opposed to a terrible defense like his '03 team, a good rebounding team as opposed to a bad one and he still had better shooters.

he couldn't play off the ball because cleveland couldn't afford him to play off the ball, they needed the ball in his hands to give them the best chance to win games of basketball.

There's some truth in that, but it still doesn't change the fact that this was a fundamental skill Lebron lacked, and this was exposed his first year in Miami when he was in a position to play without the ball a lot more, but just stood around and didn't move much.

but they still were strong enough to make it to the second round

Not saying much in that conference.

says someone who ranks players based on ppg

This really is a terrible attempt to discredit me. Nobody is falling for it, especially since I've destroyed this myth you've tried to spread.
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