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Old 10-20-2012, 08:34 AM   #300
Decent college freshman
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,572
Default Re: Barkley: I'm better than Malone

Cleveland were one of the 4 best defensive teams and 3 best rebounding teams, that's primarily how they won because they were a poor offensive team.
actually the primary reason they won was that they were lucky enough to have had an all-time great level player amongst a team full of fringe level players, and who's second best player wasn't among the top 10 players at his position in the league.
at Garrity being better than Okur. it's an easy comparison since both are big men. Garrity was a one-dimensional 3 point shooting big man, while Okur could also shoot outside, but was a solid post defender and rebounder as well. He only played 19 mpg since Detroit was so deep.
he only played 19 minutes because thats all he was worth. okur shot a disgusting 34% from downtown. garrity was automatic, averaged 11 points, 2 assists, 1 steal, and 2 3 pointers per contest. garrity also shot 83% from the free throw line. he scored over 20 points 7 times in the regular season.
Atkins did have a terrible shooting season, I'll give you that. But he was still a quality backup point guard, Definitely better than Jacque Vaughn. at the 65 game comment.
at all your comments. vaughn was easily better than atkins, who shot the ball more times than he scored points.
Detroit was the deepest and most talented team in the East.
yet it didn't result in many more wins than the other teams. 1 more win than second seed new jersey, 2 more wins than indiana and philadelphia, and only 3 more wins than fifth seed new orleans.
Kobe has never been as low as 19th as a starter, the only season he's started that it's even a reasonable statement is '99. He's only been 9th or lower as a starter in '99, '00 and '05.
in '99 he was 17th, 2 spots higher than he was '07
Kobe was clearly the best player in the league in 2006. I don't see much of a case for anyone else. There's no way he should have won 45 games in the West with that cast, his only teammate that was good was Lamar Odom, and he was inconsistent, and didn't play that well until the second half.
he wasn't anywhere near the best player in the league, dwyane wade was clearly in another stratosphere. guys like lebron james, dirk nowitzki, elton brand, and dirk nowitzki were better by a huge margin. and then there were shawn marion, allen iverson, and andrei kirilenko who were still clearly better.
After a season of carrying the team with his scoring as successfully as you could expect at his coaches request, he did the opposite and become a playmaker and even somewhat of a decoy in the 1st round vs Phoenix once it was best for the team. It almost resulted in an upset of the Suns, and Kobe's game-winner in game 4 as well as his 50 point game that would have closed them out if not for the 3 by Tim Thomas.
lol the best scorer in the league does not become a "decoy" in the playoffs. he was almost outplayed by his second best player, in lamar odom, who stepped up alot more than he did. all he could manage in the highest paced environment he could possibly wish for in the playoffs was a disgusting dropoff of 8 points per game along with almost 5 turnovers per game.
Aside from being the best scorer in the league, Kobe showed at times that he was a fine defensive player. He would often step up and take the challenge of guarding the opposing team's best perimeter player such as Wade, Carter, Allen or T-Mac, and had some memorable defensive games.
bryant was an ok defender, slightly above average, nothing special. he had better defensive seasons.
There's nobody else who could have done what Kobe did. He was clearly the most skilled player in the league, and put those skills to work. His individual play resulted in his team probably overachieving more than any other team relative to their talent level.

Name 1 other perimeter player who could have made the Lakers this good.
i can name 2. dwyane wade, allen iverson.
In 2007, there was one player who has a case over Kobe and it's Tim Duncan. But Kobe was still the consensus best player and for good reason. He was very close to the 2006 version, except worse defensively, and not as capable of carrying the team for an entire season. But that historic scoring ability returned, and he did it better than anyone in the league was capable of when his coach asked him. But spent much of the season excelling as a facilitator. With the Lakers injuries and talent, that team had no business making the playoffs.
there is no argument for putting bryant anywhere near the top 10, let alone top 2 in 2007. he had a worse regular season, and an even worse playoff series in which once again, was almost outplayed by lamar odom who stepped up alot more. the lakers had a much higher pace than they did the previous year, and he simply could not capitalize.
As for Wade? The only player better than Wade in '09 was Lebron, and the only other player with a case was Kobe. No other player can be brought up vs Wade, who clearly peaked that year. He was still in his athletic prime, but had easily the best shooting season of his career, shooting mid-range jumpers more frequently and more accurately than ever, and becoming a legit 3 point threat for the first time. This improved shooting allowed Wade to mix up his game far more and be more under control. There wasn't as much as that falling down every play bullshit. Though Wade was still one of the league's most aggressive and athletic guards. As a follow up to Wade being more under control, we saw him cut down on his turnovers greatly, and this was one of only 2 full seasons when Wade had even a solid mid-range jumper(along with 2006). Plus, Wade had easily his best defensive season.
yeh lebron was better in '09, as was kobe. the other better player was dwight howard. dwight led his orlando magic to 59 regular season wins, was the defensive player of the year, was second only to lebron james as the most valuable player in the league, 1st team all-nba, led his team to the nba finals, including victories against the 62 win celtics, and the 66 win cleveland cavaliers. in the first round against philadelphia, dwight averaged 24.0ppg, 15.8rpg, 1.0apg, 0.6spg, and 2.8bpg on 68% from the field. in the upset win over the 62 win celtics howard monstered his way to 16.4ppg, 17.1rpg, 1.4apg, 0.6spg, and 2.7bpg on 55% from the field. in the surprise series victory over the cleveland cavaliers he averaged 25.8ppg, 13.0rpg, 2.8apg, 0.8spg, and 1.2bpg on 65% from the field, including a 40 point, 14 rebound demolishing in series deciding game 6. in the finals he wasn't as effective from the field, but he still was able to put up 15.4ppg, 15.2rpg, 2.2apg, 1.6spg, and 4.0bpg.
The schedule overall was pretty average. A mix of good, bad and average teams.
tough schedule
Which is an underwhelming record considering he played with Shaq who was still in his late prime, or close to it, and the other key players from a championship team.
o'neal was unmotivated, bryant played fine. o'neal's play and attitude, was the only reason they lost that many games.
at Nash not being a top 4 point guard. Who said Finley was top 22? He's a damn good 3rd best player.
finley was top 23, nash was top 19, and fifth best point guard.
Dirk was a great player with a great season and playoff run, but nothing on paper changes the fact that he wasn't as good as T-Mac at this time. Nobody thought so.
who cares about paper? i'm talking about eyes.
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