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Old 10-30-2012, 08:29 AM   #314
Decent college freshman
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,572
Default Re: Barkley: I'm better than Malone

His cast was far better than you're giving them credit for. But we don't even need to go over subjective crap about how they look on paper. Just remember that they were a top 2 rebounding team and a top 4 defensive team. Are you going to pretend that doesn't matter?
ofcourse that is important. not as important as having a superstar talent level player putting up performances that lebron did that season though.
He only played 19 minutes because Detroit was very deep. Garrity could shoot 3s, but would I take that at the expense of defense and rebounding at the power forward position? Absolutely not as evidenced by Orlando's terrible defense and rebounding.
lol at these excuses why someone didn't play more minutes. give me a non black hole team player who is capable of draining multiple 3s per game anyday.
Atkins had a terrible shooting season, but Vaughn could never shoot anyway. Atkins started quite a bit during his career, including the previous year on a 50 win Piston team. Vaughn was lucky to crack a team's rotation even as a back up.
are we talking about career's here? no, we are talking about the 2003 season, in which atkins was clearly the worse player.
17th is reasonable for '99, but I'll always be laughing at this ridiculous horseshit for '07. The funniest thing is you can't completely hide behind team success without context because you have Wade, Brand and Garnett over Kobe in 2007. Then you have a bunch of other names that are downright comical beginning with Billups,
lol @ horseshit. wade was worlds better in the regular season, making up for his poor showing in the playoffs. bryant was better in the regular season than brand, but his poor showing in the playoffs demoted him behind brand, as was the case for garnett's place over bryant. as for billups? well he was better due to leading the pistons to the best record in the east, and a conference finals appearance.
What a joke. Kobe was in a different stratosphere than Wade if anything. It was obvious to myself and pretty much everyone else including some of Wade's veteran teammates that Kobe was better. He was much more skilled and his game was much more well rounded than Wade. Wade was the better slasher and more relentless going to the basket, but that's about it. Kobe was a much better shooter and much better in the post, and all of this made Kobe a much better scorer. Kobe outscored Wade 35 ppg to 27 ppg, and while Wade held a nice FG% advantage of 49.5% to 45%, Kobe made 2 more threes per game, so Wade's TS% edge was only 58.3% to 55.9%. Plus, Kobe did this without anyone to take pressure off of them, while Wade clearly seemed to benefit from Shaq's presence since he shot 51.7% with him and just 44.7% without him in a significant sample size of 21 games.
the only reason kobe outscored wade 35ppg to 27ppg was the fact that he shot the ball almost 9 more times per game than wade did .

wade was better in the regular season..and well we know what happened in the playoffs: bryant lost in the first round after going up 3-1, becoming only the 8th team in nba history to lose a series in such a manner. bryant seemed to be in cry baby mode in game 7 of this series, often pouting, showing quitting tendencies, scoring 1 solitary point in the second half.

wade on the other hand had one of the greatest playoff runs in nba history. wade led the bulls past the tough and talented chicago bulls, destroyed the 49 win nets in the second round, past number 1 seed and defending eastern conference champion detroit in the conference finals, and finally defeating the 60 win dallas mavericks in the nba finals.

wade put up 24.7ppg, 4.5rpg, 7.2apg, 2.0spg, and 1.3bpg against chicago, 27.6ppg, 6.0rpg, 6.6apg, 2.4spg, and 0.6bpg against new jersey, 26.7ppg, 5.2rpg, 5.5apg, 1.8spg, 1.5bpg against detroit, and then against the best he played incredible: 34.7ppg, 7.8rpg, 3.8apg, 2.7spg, and 1.0bpg in the finals against dallas, while his second best player was embarrassing himself.
at this trash. Kobe wasn't going to outscore the Suns by himself, both Kobe and Phil knew this. He had averaged 42.5 ppg vs them during the season, but the Lakers had gone 1-3 in those games. Changing Kobe's role and approach made sense and nearly resulted in the upset. He still put up 28/6/5, 50 FG%, but his teammates were playing to their full potential as well.
still put up 7 less points than he did in the regular season in a high pace environment. lamar odom on the other hand played huge and stepped up his game, unlike bryant. odom increased his ppg from 14.8ppg to 19.1ppg, and increased his rpg from 9.2rpg to 11.0rpg.
Based on what? Wade's Heat went just 10-11 when he played and Shaq didn't. And he still had a better cast than Kobe.

All the evidence suggest that '06 Wade couldn't have come close to 45 wins with the '06 Lakers. Probably finishes under .500 and misses the playoffs.
what is this 21 games bullshit? last time i checked an nba season goes for 82 games in length.

it is purely based on the fact that wade was much, much better. i don't play this "probably this would happen if this happened" or "this will happen if a certain player plays somewhere" i deal with facts. sure kobe had a nice regular season, but wade was still better, contributing more to a winning cause. then there were the playoffs, where wade put up a legendary playoff and finals, bryant was busy losing in the first round after being up 3-1, and scoring almost 8 less points than he did in the regular season in more minutes per game, in a higher paced environment.
Iverson? His team went 38-44 in the East and missed the playoffs. That's the best case scenario in the West, but probably a bit worse. Kobe did what Iverson did better than he did, which was volume scorer, while being the more efficient, versatile and consistent scorer, and a more well rounded player.
bryant was better than iverson after the regular season. but because of his disgusting performance, was demoted below iverson as a result. iverson also scored more than bryant per shot attempt, and also managed to average 7.4apg.
There is no argument for Kobe being any less than top 2, and he's the correct choice for best player.
this is like arguing serge ibaka is the best player in the league of today.
As far as Dwight, he did have a great year, I've pointed out that playoff run in a similar way when some have tried to exclude Dwight from the top 5 players that year. But he was raw offensively, and we saw how he could be contained vs Boston and LA. That held him back from the level of Lebron, Wade and Kobe who were on a different level than everyone else.
dwight was still good enough to lead the orlando magic to the nba finals. we also saw how wade could be contained in the first round losing to the atlanta hawks and not even managing to shoot 44 percent from the field, only managing to break the 50% mark once that series.
[quote]I have Finley lower and Nash higher at top 14. Marbury, Francis and Payton are all right behind him, but I don't see any as having a good case since Nash was clearly the best offensive player of the 4, and none were good enough defensively at that point to make up for it.[quote]
marbury is right behind him. this is the only correct statement of your paragraph. francis, payton, and baron davis are all better than him (along with the obvious jason kidd).
at this. Do you deny that T-Mac was a better scorer than Dirk and more of an all around player in '03?
more statsheet filth. congrats on being able to put up points when your team is constantly going to you on offense. give me dirk's ability to contribute to a winning cause and better point per shot ratio over this .500 ball anyday.
And lost in the second round. Stackhouse was more skilled and talented overall, but Rip was more efficient, smarter and more of a team player. Stackhouse shot a terrible 32% in the '02 playoffs.
stackhouse was disappointing in the playoffs no doubt. however, over 82 games he just provided the pistons with alot more all round firepower.
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