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Old 11-25-2012, 01:29 PM   #49
Math2
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Default Re: PA College Slashes Instructors' Hours to Avoid Obamacare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMT
I see our disconnect. You don't know the difference between facts (what I posted) and talking points ("even though health care costs have been rising, they will rise much, much faster now that Obamacare is law") , a broad generalization for which there is no basis in fact.

You highlighted the increase in the % gov't spends on health care (up from 24 to 48% since 1960) as if it proves some point. But these numbers have nothing to do with the AHCA; they were compiled in 2010. They instead are almost a deadon reflection of our population growth since 1960. When you factor in that the % of our population that are retired seniors has increased far disproportionate to the population growth, government has actually done a fairly decent job keeping their share of the costs in line.

The % private insurance companies pay has gone up 50% during that same time period. They're not going to volunteer to pay more.

Meanwhile, the individual consumers share of the pie has dropped by 50%. It's ironic that those that rail against entitlements overlook that we've been riding a gravy train as it pertains to our share of our health cars costs for 50 years.

The main reasons the consumers costs raise every year are simple: (1) the burden of covering the cost of the uninsured, who seek out care at emergency rooms, the one place they know they legally can't be turned away and (2) the unchecked nature of the industry itself. Privatization has been a colossal failure and put us in the spot we are now. The argument that a free market drug/medical system is going to self regulate is laughable. They'll squeeze every penny they can from the payers, blaming their exorbitant cost increases on R&D.

As to (1), the uninsured put such a burden on the aspect of our system that has the highest operating costs to begin with that they have little choice but to charge ridiculous fees for services that could easily be handled at out patient clinics or general practicioner's offices. Preventive care isn't an option for the uninsured. And when you actually do require catastrophic treatment, the costs are passed along to you. That's why most estimates show that medical bankruptcies make up roughly 60% of all those in the courts.

There is nothing inherent in the AHCA that indicates that increases in cost will come anywhere near the growth of the last few decades. Reducing the rolls of the uninsured and regulating industry pricing practices are the simple, most reasonable steps toward fixing a system that is way beyond broken.

But if you're against the government involving itself, and you don't think the private insurance companies should be regulated, and you think the individual consumer shouldn't have to pay closer to their share of the costs...where exactly should the money come from? Or do we continue down the same disastrous path that has been ignored or addressed ineffectually by Republicans and Democrats alike for the last 50 years?


It does have basis in fact. It's crazy to think that FORCING insurance companies to cover more people (more people that may or may not cost lots in medical insurance) doesn't bring up rates. No, I don't have facts to back that up, frankly because the future hasn't happened yet. I never said government spending had anything to do with Obamacare, however much you'd like me to have said that. I said that having the government pay for peoples insurance raises costs. It's the same idea as college costs. Why have they risen? Because of government interference.

Do people not pay insurance companies? Is that not even included in your figures? Gravy train my ass.

Your argument is basically that Obamacare isn't going to make it worse because they are getting rid of uninsured persons? Again, it's not going to help making companies cover more people, in effect costing them more, and then they pass the cost onto you. It's simple.
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