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Old 11-29-2012, 12:09 PM   #33
Money 23
Samurai Swoosh
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chicago's Finest
Posts: 2,422
Default Re: Who is "YOUR" Joker?

Originally Posted by Dragonyeuw
The thing with the 'Jack in Joker makeup' for me, Batman 89 was actually the first time I ever saw Nicholson in a movie. That sentiment resonates now in retrospect because I've of course seen Jack in several movies since. At the time of watching the film though( saw it as a 12 year old in the theatre), it was a guy playing the Joker. I had no frame of reference otherwise at that point.
Totally agree. I mean for me it was similar. I was 4 when the movie came out, first movie I saw in a theater, too. But after you see Jack in subsequent movies ... it's like, he's that character a lot of the time. Which is why I prefer him in the Departed. That fits his character.

I see the Joker as more of a youthful, anarchist. I'm more of a fan of the idea of the Joker being his own breed of criminal, and not a mob enforcer with the dial turned up. It resonates better with the whole idea of freaks v.s. the classic criminal in Gotham after the rise and inspiration of Batman.

It makes Batman more apart of the Joker's creation in a negative way, thus the internal dilemma for Bruce of having created this symbol of fear (criminals) and hope for the citizens of Gotham.

The whole "this city deserves a better class of criminal, an I'm gonna give it to them" ... "It's not about money, it's about sending a message. Everything burns." I like the idea of the Joker manipulating the mob to use their resources to take over the city, but he ultimately wants to wipe out standard crime in Gotham. And it's funny, Batman cripples the mob by TDK, the Joker is ultimately the one who murks them when he takes control of their finances, Lau and man power. Creating a criminal vacuum in Gotham.

Originally Posted by Dragonyeuw
Heath's character was written really as a man who was challenging life's status quo and wasn't motivated by 'simple' pleasures like money( hence his burning of the money stack). At that point, if it wasn't obvious already, you're thinking ok this guy is sick. I mean really, sick.
Yup, great post.

Originally Posted by Dragonyeuw
But he made you think, which is what makes the character resonate so strongly: consider his conversation with Dent in the hospital and the interrogation scene. You're supposed to be rooting against this guy but if you're being honest with yourself, alot of what he was saying makes perfect sense and you're fighting internally not to see his way of thinking. I'm not afraid to say I agreed with much of his philosophy. He was as uncompromising is his values as Batman was in his, which is what makes Heath's Joker such a great character and a legitimate threat to Batman and society on a larger scale.
Some of what he says is true. Which is what makes him such a great liar. The partial truths. TDK writes the character so well. He's essentially the devil. No origin, just seemingly rises from the streets of Gotham. No past criminal history. Just an organic response to the Batman.

What he says is true in some cases, he's manipulating EVERYONE in the movie to see if they break psychologically, and can be molded to be as disgusting as he is inside. The whole film asks the audience what would you do when faced with a similar position thrusted in front of you by a man making you test your limits. Will you remain altruistic and heroic? Or take the easy way out and kill? Thus the "killing Coleman Reese" scene, and the Ferry finale.

The Joker doesn't want to kill people, he's good at that don't get me wrong, but he ultimately wants to twist people to his way of thinking, the same way Batman wants to inspire people to reclaim their city.

The whole movie he lies. When he introduces himself to the mob, he presents himself as a sane contract killer looking to make a living by taking out the thorn in crime's side in Gotham

"You're crazy"
"No ... I'm ... notttt"

"How much you want?"

He's appealing to them as a manipulation in order to take control of their resources, ultimately run them out of town. The Joker isn't interested in money, but he acts like he does in order to take control of the mob. He doesn't want to aimlessly kill everyone in Gotham, but to make them mentally twisted ... and make Gotham his personal playground.

That's why he doesn't want to kill Batman, either. It's all such a more fascinating character than the one in B89. The Joker's motivations come straight out of one of the best graphic novels of all-time, The Killing Joke.

And he succeeds in corrupting Gotham's White Knight. The character is down right demonic in its presentation.

Originally Posted by Dragonyeuw
was as uncompromising is his values as Batman was in his, which is what makes Heath's Joker such a great character and a legitimate threat to Batman and society on a larger scale.
Yup. This isn't some parade trying to kill people. He's trying to infiltrate society's minds and corrupt them.
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