Lebron+wade= 1, Jordan+pippen=6, magic+kareem=5, Kobe+pau= 2

[Yao Ming's Foot]

How can playing less minutes be a positive? If you aren't on the court, you don't do anything. Your impact is 0. The only way you could argue that being positive for KG is if Gasol was hurting the Lakers...which everyone knows would be absurd.

KG was not even close to himself in the series. He was awful on the glass especially.

Nobody...I mean nobody...objectively evaluating that series would come away thinking that KG outplayed Gasol. Absurd....

Playing less minutes isn't a positive but it brings the dreaded context to the discussion that you selectively despise. Gasol rebounded better than Garnett, that's it. The gap isn't a large that it appears because Gasol was simply on the court more. On a per minute basis Garnett was the better scorer and more efficient. And the elephant in the room that you guys like to gloss over is that Garnett's impact defensively trumps Gasol 10 out of 10 times.

[NBASTATMAN]

The Lakers shot 32% as a team. While Kobe struggled from the field, he got to the Line 15 times, 9 times in the 4th quarter. Also grabbed 15 rebounds, the most defensive rebounds in the game. Nobody cleaned up his "mess". If his teammates showed up in Game 5, there would be no need for a Game 7.

I won some money on that Finals. Who you kiddin the Refs cleaned up the mess for the Lakers...

[NBASTATMAN]

The Lakers won the 2009 title cuz Kg got injured and in 2010 they win cuz Perkins was injured.. In 2002 Peja was injured for the WCF if not they lose that as well. I won't even mention that if Duncan is not injured in 2000 you lose to the Spurs that year.

The Lakers have benefited from injuries and the REFS HELP.

[NumberSix]

LeBron+Wade=1...... so far.

[Bandito]

dirk did it once ( but lately its been obvious tyson chandler as a defensive anchor was the real reason the mavs were dominant )

I am baffled by this, since when has the Mavs been dominant? They won by pure will of the veterans Dirk, Barea, Terry, Chandler, Marion, Kidd and even Stevenson (among others.) They were not dominant.

[guy]

Why wouldn't the Lakers do it? The would have done in 08, 09, 10, 11, 12 and today. The gap between the two on offense is negligible and their differences on defense are vast. Pau Gasol is a great #2 guy. Kevin Garnett was the identity of that team. Their playoff run was fueled by elite level defense http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6237 A prime healthy KG doesn't wait to the postseason to turn it on but make no mistake he was still dominant defensively.

Gasol, Fisher and Artest were 17/40 in Game 7. My comment about backcourt support wasn't about the last 30 secs of random games of your choosing but rather the entirety of 2008-2010. If you disagree please feel free to name names.

I already said KG was better then Gasol in 08, 11, 12. But in 09 and 10? There's no way the Lakers take KG over Gasol. In 09 at least just for the simple fact that KG got injured and his age and durability was starting to become a question mark, while Gasol was at the peak of his career, and in 10 because Gasol was just better, while KG was old and on the decline and that clearly showed with KG basically running out of gas at the end while Gasol was arguably his team's best player in that game 7.

Bottom line is Kobe didn't will that team singlehandedly to shit against the Celtics. You're making it seem like he pulled a Jordan 1998 game 6 vs. the Jazz type of performance against them when he clearly didn't. It was much more of a team effort, with some of his teammates arguably doing more at the end of games in some cases. You can say that about Kobe in game 5 of that series if the Lakers had won that game, but they didn't.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I already said KG was better then Gasol in 08, 11, 12. But in 09 and 10? There's no way the Lakers take KG over Gasol. In 09 at least just for the simple fact that KG got injured and his age and durability was starting to become a question mark, while Gasol was at the peak of his career, and in 10 because Gasol was just better, while KG was old and on the decline and that clearly showed with KG basically running out of gas at the end while Gasol was arguably his team's best player in that game 7.

Bottom line is Kobe didn't will that team singlehandedly to shit against the Celtics. You're making it seem like he pulled a Jordan 1998 game 6 vs. the Jazz type of performance against them when he clearly didn't. It was much more of a team effort, with some of his teammates arguably doing more at the end of games in some cases. You can say that about Kobe in game 5 of that series if the Lakers had won that game, but they didn't.

Jordan's teammates shot 59% in Game 6.
Kobe's teammates shot 36% in Game 7.

Jordan had 2 rebounds+Assists in Game 6.
Kobe had 17 Rebounds+Assists in Game 7.

Yeah clearly it was Kobe who had all the help not Jordan.

[NBASTATMAN]

Gasol clearly outplayed KG in the 2010 Finals. What the **** are you smoking?

23/14/3
25/8/3
13/10/4
21/6/3
12/12/0
17/13/9
19/18/4


16/4/1
6/4/6
25/6/3
13/6/3
18/10/3
12/6/3
17/3/2

KG was a joke on the glass and his defense was good, but hardly up to his standard. He obviously had worn down that late into the playoffs and had lost his legs.

The notion that KG was better than Gasol in the 2010 Finals is just objectively false. No argument can be made at all...

Yao put his foot in his mouth..

[guy]

Jordan's teammates shot 59% in Game 6.
Kobe's teammates shot 36% in Game 7.

Jordan had 2 rebounds+Assists in Game 6.
Kobe had 17 Rebounds+Assists in Game 7.

Yeah clearly it was Kobe who had all the help not Jordan.

Do you ever watch games or just read box scores? Jordan took over half of his team's shots and scored over half their points for a reason. There is arguably no closer situation to a player singlehandedly willing his team to a victory then that, and there's nothing in Kobe's Finals career that even comes close to that and definitely not that game 7 where other players were hitting the bigger shots.

Where is this revisionist history coming from? No one in their right mind was saying Kobe singlehandedly willed that team to victory in game 7 or any of those games in general. In fact, after game 7, the general feeling was that his teammates bailed him out. Kobe even said his teammates really came through for him that night and made up for what he was lacking. What world were you living in during that time ?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Do you ever watch games or just read box scores? Jordan took over half of his team's shots and scored over half their points for a reason. There is arguably no closer situation to a player singlehandedly willing his team to a victory then that, and there's nothing in Kobe's Finals career that even comes close to that and definitely not that game 7 where other players were hitting the bigger shots.

Where is this revisionist history coming from? No one in their right mind was saying Kobe singlehandedly willed that team to victory in game 7 or any of those games in general. In fact, after game 7, the general feeling was that his teammates bailed him out. Kobe even said his teammates really came through for him that night and made up for what he was lacking. What world were you living in during that time ?

How is it that you continually argue against yourself yet somehow find a way to lose?

I never claimed Kobe won Game 7 by himself. I said his backcourt support from 2008-2010 was among the worst in the league if not the worst. You countered that up with some irrelevant Jordan mythology.

[guy]

How is it that you continually argue against yourself yet somehow find a way to lose?

I never claimed Kobe won Game 7 by himself. I said his backcourt support from 2008-2010 was among the worst in the league if not the worst. You countered that up with some irrelevant Jordan mythology.

I'm not losing shit cause I'm not the one thats continuously making up history.

This is what you said:

Bynum wasn't healthy for either title run. What team was more stacked? The Celtics. Their bigs were just as good as the Lakers leaving Kobe to will his team to victory over Ray Allen, Rondo and Paul Pierce while having some of the worst backcourt support in the entire league.

You said Kobe was willing his team to victory. If you're just talking about strictly backcourt, then what the **** does that even mean? There's 5 players on the court. He's not singlehandedly willing his team to anything if other players are stepping up as well. And even if you can somehow just restrict it to the backcourt, 2 of the games they won were blowouts. Game 3 it was Derek Fisher who closed out that game going 5-7 in the 4th while Kobe went a disgusting 1-6. If you're including Paul Pierce then I'm assuming you should also be including Ron Artest, who arguably was the best player in game 7 and hit the biggest shot. So no matter how you look at it, Kobe in no shape or form willed his team singlehandedly to anything vs. the Celtics.

The Jordan example was just an example. And its not mythology. Thats what people were saying and what the general feeling was. That he singlehandedly willed his team to victory that night, unlike Kobe in game 7 vs. the Celtics which was like the exact opposite .

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I'm not losing shit cause I'm not the one thats continuously making up history.

This is what you said:

Bynum wasn't healthy for either title run. What team was more stacked? The Celtics. Their bigs were just as good as the Lakers leaving Kobe to will his team to victory over Ray Allen, Rondo and Paul Pierce while having some of the worst backcourt support in the entire league.

You said Kobe was willing his team to victory. If you're just talking about strictly backcourt, then what the **** does that even mean? There's 5 players on the court. He's not singlehandedly willing his team to anything if other players are stepping up as well. And even if you can somehow just restrict it to the backcourt, 2 of the games they won were blowouts. Game 3 it was Derek Fisher who closed out that game going 5-7 in the 4th while Kobe went a disgusting 1-6. If you're including Paul Pierce then I'm assuming you should also be including Ron Artest, who arguably was the best player in game 7 and hit the biggest shot. So no matter how you look at it, Kobe in no shape or form willed his team singlehandedly to anything vs. the Celtics.

The Jordan example was just an example. And its not mythology. Thats what people were saying and what the general feeling was. That he singlehandedly willed his team to victory that night, unlike Kobe in game 7 vs. the Celtics which was like the exact opposite .

See once again you are arguing against yourself. Pau Gasol was the best player 3 posts ago for Game 7 and now its Ron Artest. As I said before my comments are not in reference to extreme limited subsets of games that you cling to (non blowout games, last 6 shots for Fisher of one game , last 1 one shot for Artest of another). Ron Artest and Derick Fisher were 13 for 42 (31%) from 3 in the Finals. Artest shot an amazing 7 for 18 in Game 7. Name a player who won a title recently with worse backcourt support.

The disconnect between what people "say" and "feel" and the evidence that's left behind is the definition of mythology.

[raptorfan_dr07]

Ron Artest and Derick Fisher were 13 for 42 (31%) from 3 in the Finals. Artest shot an amazing 7 for 18 in Game 7. Name a player who won a title recently with worse backcourt support.

Derek Fisher shot 45% from the field and 36% from 3 in 2010 playoffs. Kobe by comparison, shot 46% from the field and 37% from 3.

Pau Gasol in Game 7: 38% shooting
Ron Artest in Game 7: 39% shooting
Derek Fisher in Game 7: 67% shooting

Kobe Bryant in Game 7: 25%

They all shot significantly better than him in Game 7. Kobe choked plain and simple. He had his shot at imposing his will in legendary fashion against the Lakers most hated opponent in the biggest game of the season and he choked. Luckily for him, his teammates came through.

And Gasol outplayed KG in the 2010 Finals.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Derek Fisher shot 45% from the field and 36% from 3 in 2010 playoffs. Kobe by comparison, shot 46% from the field and 37% from 3.

Pau Gasol in Game 7: 38% shooting
Ron Artest in Game 7: 39% shooting
Derek Fisher in Game 7: 67% shooting

Kobe Bryant in Game 7: 25%

They all shot significantly better than him in Game 7. Kobe choked plain and simple. He had his shot at imposing his will in legendary fashion against the Lakers most hated opponent in the biggest game of the season and he choked. Luckily for him, his teammates came through.

And Gasol outplayed KG in the 2010 Finals.

Kobe's disastrous Game 7

6-24 = 25.0%

His amazing teammates who carried the load

21-59= 35.6%

10.6% gap

Jordan heroically leading his team to victory single-handedly in Game 6

15-35= 42.9%

His scrub teammates

19-32= 59.4%

16.5% gap