It's crazy LeBron actually lived up to the hype.

[Dave3]

It's really not that crazy. Impressive as f[COLOR="Black"]uc[/COLOR]k, but not crazy. Everyone could see it in high school, the dude was almost certainly going to be an unreal player. He and Shaq were both as close to sure-fire all time greats before the draft as you could possibly get.

Come on dude, there was a lot of doubt about him becoming that great before the draft. The last few highschool players hadn't panned out great, and the best one was Stoudemire the year before who was considered a huge success with 13/9. People were doubting he could put up 16/4/4 his rookie year, and many thought at best he'd become a 23/7/5 type player. There were a lot of people that thought he had the potential for greatness, but everyone was still wary of highschool players and their history of failure in the NBA - this was only 2 years after Kwame. It was a bit of a split jury.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Is that the "not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7" hype?

This would make some sense if he actually has played 7-8 years in Miami.

[diamenz]

Already almost as many finals appearances as Jordan. Making the finals >>>>> not making it.

i won't argue with you... i don't even hate/dislike lebron - i showed props for his game 2 performance in another thread. honestly i don't have a stake in this series, and i'm more of a jordan fan than a stan.

sh!t, if lebron did officially pass mj i wouldn't care - neither of us know either player personally so i'm not going to sit here and be bad.

[edrick]

Regardless of whether or not he is ever considered to be the best player ever. He's had that pressure on him before he even stepped onto an NBA court. How many people have lived up to that? Not many.

[Roundball_Rock]

he needs 7. no one passes jordan by equaling him

Jordan won 6 in 15 years. That is winning 40% of the time. Russell won 11 times in 13 years--a staggering 85% rate. This was with the Celtics losing with Russell going down in one Finals or else it would have been 12 in 13 years. Russell clearly is the greatest winner in basketball history and probably in American sports history. He did this with a college that no one heard from before or since Russell. In the NBA he did it with a team that was barely above 0.500 when he joined; when he retired his team went from champions to 34-48 and missed the playoffs. If winning is your criteria, then Russell is the clear GOAT.

[Soundwave]

I'm a "Jordan stan", but I like LeBron and I'm not threatened. He's a great player, if he can win 7 titles and maintain dominance into his 30s then he deserves the GOAT title until someone else can get 8. The bar has to keep moving up, that's how greatness works.

Even as is if he wins this year I think he cements himself above Bird and on par with Magic and Shaq with lots of time to surpass others.

He's a great player, I enjoy watching him play, some his "fans" are a little annoying, but I get it, most of y'all are probably kids, you'll learn in time to be a little more humble (probably in about 5 years time when you are being pestered by Wiggins fanboys or something and LeBron is in the twilight of his career).

[buddha]

Jordan stans getting nervous

maybe Kobe stans, LeBron will need atleast 7-8 championships to surpass Jordan with his much inferior stats.

[Real14]

We talking about tha same person??

[Roundball_Rock]

he deserves the GOAT title until someone else can get 8. The bar has to keep moving up, that's how greatness works.

maybe Kobe stans, LeBron will need atleast 7-8 championships to surpass Jordan with his much inferior stats.

When was Jordan shooting nearly 60% while taking 4 three's a game?

[Soundwave]

Jordan won 6 in 15 years. That is winning 40% of the time. Russell won 11 times in 13 years--a staggering 85% rate. This was with the Celtics losing with Russell going down in one Finals or else it would have been 12 in 13 years. Russell clearly is the greatest winner in basketball history and probably in American sports history. He did this with a college that no one heard from before or since Russell. In the NBA he did it with a team that was barely above 0.500 when he joined; when he retired his team went from champions to 34-48 and missed the playoffs. If winning is your criteria, then Russell is the clear GOAT.

Russell is overrated ... there I said it. He played in the weakest era ... there were like four 7 footers in the 60s, 6'3 players would rack up 15 rpg, there were 9 NBA teams, and the development level of basketball at that time was incredibly primitive, the USA wasn't even an integrated society so who knows how many potentially great talents in the 50s/60s never got a chance because they couldn't get proper coaching at the NCAA level.

He was also like the 4th leading scorer on some of those Celtics teams. C'mon, man.

Jordan, LeBron, Kareem are the three that will have the best case for GOAT IMO when this era winds down.

If Russell could win 10 titles in the 80s, that's a different story, but I doubt he would even come close to sniffing that.

Anything prior to the 1976 merger of the NBA and ABA has a giant asterisk next to it, the competition level and the development of the game just wasn't anywhere close to being cemented at that time.

[edrick]

Lebron has a long way to go to be comparable to Jordan. Anyone that says otherwise is living in the moment. Just think about what Jordan accomplished, Lebron is not there yet, he's not even half way there yet.

[Magic 32]

When was Jordan shooting nearly 60% while taking 4 three's a game?

[Roundball_Rock]

Lebron has a long way to go to be comparable to Jordan. Anyone that says otherwise is living in the moment. Just think about what Jordan accomplished, Lebron is not there yet, he's not even half way there yet.

Well, here is what MJ had accomplished by age 29: 3 rings, 3 MVP's, 3 Finals appearances, 3 first round losses.

LeBron, if the Heat win this year, would by the same age have: 3 rings, 4 MVP's, 5 Finals appearances, 0 first round losses.

Keep in mind LeBron already has more MVP's than Magic, Bird (who had 3) and has more than Shaq, Kobe, Hakeem combined. He has only 2 less than MJ (KAJ was the record with 6, although some in the media act as if Mike has the fake MVP and fake rings records ).

the USA wasn't even an integrated society so who knows how many potentially great talents in the 50s/60s never got a chance because they couldn't get proper coaching at the NCAA level.

Why does that logic not apply to the lack of international players until the 2000's? It is a legitimate, but hypocritical point, to note the racial talent pool was smaller in the 60's but ignoring the global talent pool was smaller in the past too. The NBA did not become a 1/5 international league until this century.

[edrick]

Well, here is what MJ had accomplished by age 29: 3 rings, 3 MVP's, 3 Finals appearances, 3 first round losses.

LeBron, if the Heat win this year, would by the same age have: 3 rings, 4 MVP's, 5 Finals appearances, 0 first round losses.

Keep in mind LeBron already has more MVP's than Magic, Bird (who had 3) and has more than Shaq, Kobe, Hakeem combined. He has only 2 less than MJ

If he wins a third ring this year, he passes a lot of people, but not Jordan.

He can obviously get there, he still has several good years left in him, if he stays healthy.

[Soundwave]

Well, here is what MJ had accomplished by age 29: 3 rings, 3 MVP's, 3 Finals appearances, 3 first round losses.

LeBron, if the Heat win this year, would by the same age have: 3 rings, 4 MVP's, 5 Finals appearances, 0 first round losses.

Keep in mind LeBron already has more MVP's than Magic, Bird (who had 3) and has more than Shaq, Kobe, Hakeem combined. He has only 2 less than MJ.



Why does that logic not apply to the lack of international players until the 2000's? It is a legitimate, but hypocritical point, to note the racial talent pool was smaller in the 60's but ignoring the global talent pool was smaller in the past too. The NBA did not become a 1/5 international league until this century.

Because the best players are still by and large American. And there were a fair number of talented Euro players in the 90s in the NBA (shame about Drazen Petrovic, what a talent he was).

That's different from the abject poverty and exclusion the majority of the black community went through prior to the civil rights movement. How many NCAA div 1 college campuses were even integrated in the 50s (that would be the time era where a 60s player would have to develop?).

Basketball was a B-tier, gong show sport prior to the 1970s and really only modernized fully in the 1980s.