Kobe Playoff vs. Finals Scoring During Title Years

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I hold similar respect for both Kobe and Jordan's playoff performances against elite finals defenses. I just wish I could have seen Jordan have a few more. Only the 96 Sonics come close.

04 Spurs 94.1
99 Spurs 95.0
04 Pistons 95.4
01 Spurs 98.0
01 76ers 98.9
08 Celtics 98.9
00 Suns 99.0
04 Rockets 99.0
02 Nets 99.5
01 Kings 99.6
04 Twolves 99.7
02 Spurs 99.7
03 Spurs 99.7
93 Knicks 99.7
97 Heat 100.6
00 Blazers 100.8
02 Kings 101.1
98 Pacers 101.6
08 Spurs 101.8
01 Blazers 101.8
09 Magic 101.9
00 Kings 102.1
96 Sonics 102.1

DRTG per decade =/= different styles of basketball. Nobody that understands the game inside-out considers the 2000 Kings or 2009 Magic to be on the level of the '96 Sonics (or '98 Pacers) defensively. The mere insinuation is laughable.

Remember, you're the one that's giving Kobe an excuse for his poor shooting in the Finals. These so-called defensive juggernauts that have "superb" defensive ratings all average a worse DRtg than the 2001 Spurs. Kobe cleaned house with those Spurs. But according to you, that isn't possible. Care to explain? Instead of answering my question with a question, maybe you can break it down for us?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

GO AHEAD and tell me that the 2003 Wizards were a better defensive team then the 1989 Pistons, they did have the better defensive rating....right? Does that mean they are the better defensive team??

Im telling you right now if you had two equal players one playing the 2003 Wizards during the regular season under 2003 rules and the other playing the 1989 Pistons under 1989 rules, simple logic and 162 games of data would suggest that the player playing against the 03 Wizards would be more likely to have the higher points per possession ratio when the game was over.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

DRTG per decade =/= different styles of basketball. Nobody that understands the game inside-out would consider the 2000 Kings or 2009 Magic to be on the level of the '96 Sonics (or '98 Pacers) defensively. The mere insinuation is laughable.

Remember, you're the one that's giving Kobe an excuse for his poor shooting in the Finals. These so-called defensive juggernauts that have "superb" defensive ratings all average a worse DRtg than the 2001 Spurs. Kobe cleaned house with those Spurs. But according to you, that isn't possible. Care to explain? Instead of answering my question with a question, maybe you can break it down for us?

I never said it was not possible. I said that Kobe would have to be vastly superior to Jordan to surpass his Finals statistics given how much easier the competition during Jordan's era was able to score against Jordan's Finals opponents.

Why is it ok to compare offensive statistics from different eras and not defensive statistics Its ok if we count Jordan's inflated offensive stats but we cant count the defensive stats of the teams he faced because "its a different era".

[bwink23]

Im telling you right now if you had two equal players one playing the 2003 Wizards during the regular season under 2003 rules and the other playing the 1989 Pistons under 1989 rules, simple logic and 162 games of data would suggest that the player playing against the 03 Wizards would be more likely to have the higher points per possession ration when the game was over.

I guarantee you under ANY set of rules that the 1991 Bulls with prime Jordan, Pippen and Grant (104.5 Drating) is a much GREATER defensive team than the 2003 Wizards with old-ass Jordan, Jerry Stackhouse and Popeye Jones....(104.1 Drating)

[bwink23]

I never said it was not possible. I said that Kobe would have to be vastly superior to Jordan to surpass his Finals statistics given how much easier the competition during Jordan's era was able to score against Jordan's Finals opponents.

Why is it ok to compare offensive statistics from different eras and not defensive statistics Its ok if we count Jordan's inflated offensive stats but we cant count the defensive stats of the teams he faced because "its a different era".

Are you trying to tell me that Kobe Bryant would have a tougher time scoring against the 2003 Wizards than the 1991 Chicago Bulls with Jordan and Pippen on the wings??


GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!!

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I never said it was not possible. I said that Kobe would have to be vastly superior to Jordan to surpass his Finals statistics given how much easier the competition during Jordan's era was able to score against Jordan's Finals opponents.

Why you think its ok to compare offensive statistics from different eras and not defensive statistics is pretty funny to me? Its ok if we count Jordan's inflated offensive stats but we cant count the defensive stats of the teams he faced because "its a different era".

I'm all for comparing players as long as there is context. PER is good for adjusting pace, defense, possessions, etc. All that good stuff you're whining about. H2H, Jordan simply shits on Kobe. No ifs and or buts about it son.

Move along now.

Are you trying to tell me that Kobe Bryant would have a tougher time scoring against the 2003 Wizards than the 1991 Chicago Bulls with Jordan and Pippen on the wings??


GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!!

[Nevaeh]

DRTG per decade =/= different styles of basketball. Nobody that understands the game inside-out considers the 2000 Kings or 2009 Magic to be on the level of the '96 Sonics (or '98 Pacers) defensively. The mere insinuation is laughable.

Remember, you're the one that's giving Kobe an excuse for his poor shooting in the Finals. These so-called defensive juggernauts that have "superb" defensive ratings all average a worse DRtg than the 2001 Spurs. Kobe cleaned house with those Spurs. But according to you, that isn't possible. Care to explain? Instead of answering my question with a question, maybe you can break it down for us?

What's that Kuniva? You mean that teams who milk the 24 second clock, and only take shots when time's winding down to limit an opposing team's number of possessions, will have a higher defensive rating than teams that shoot early in the shot clock? Even if they don't play a lick of legit defense during the game? Wow, didn't know that. Thanks my Brotha

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Are you trying to tell me that Kobe Bryant would have a tougher time scoring against the 2003 Wizards than the 1991 Chicago Bulls with Jordan and Pippen on the wings??


GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!!

No, its not a hypothetical and Kobe Bryant wouldn't be part of the data set. This is the simple summation of 82 games of data. The average 1991 NBA player facing the Bulls during the regular season had a higher points per possession average than the average 2003 NBA player facing the Wizards. That isn't debatable.

Whats debatable is what rules were in place that allowed for this to happen and what does it say about the inflated offensive statistics that were born from this era?

[M.V.W.]

You guys still on this? It's pointless to single out Bryant for under 50 FG% in Finals appearances, when others have had similar performances. His tendency to play hero-ball is a key factor. It's not like he's choking in the moment.

[bwink23]

I'm all for comparing players as long as there is context. PER is good for adjusting pace, defense, possessions, etc. All that good stuff you're whining about. H2H, Jordan simply shits on Kobe. No ifs and or buts about it son.

Move along now.

Does any of this sound like "COMMON SENSE THEORY" to you?? LOL!!!!!



DERRRRRR!!

[Yao Ming's Foot]

What's that Kuniva? You mean that teams who milk the 24 second clock, and only take shots when time's winding down to limit an opposing team's number of possessions, will have a higher defensive rating than teams that shoot early in the shot clock? Even if they don't play a lick of legit defense during the game? Wow, didn't know that. Thanks my Brotha

Ah yes the resurgence of the teams suddenly forgot how to play offense conspiracy theory.

[bwink23]

What's that Kuniva? You mean that teams who milk the 24 second clock, and only take shots when time's winding down to limit an opposing team's number of possessions, will have a higher defensive rating than teams that shoot early in the shot clock? Even if they don't play a lick of legit defense during the game? Wow, didn't know that. Thanks my Brotha

How dare you bring LOGIC into this conversation.....when we have the infamous and all-powerful Defensive Rating at our disposal!!

[bwink23]

No, its not a hypothetical and Kobe Bryant wouldn't be part of the data set. This is the simple summation of 82 games of data. The average 1991 NBA player facing the Bulls during the regular season had a higher points per possession average than the average 2003 NBA player facing the Wizards. That isn't debatable.

Whats debatable is what rules were in place that allowed for this to happen and what does it say about the inflated offensive statistics that were born from this era?

What isn't debatable is that the 1991 Bulls were a better defensive team than the 2003 Wizards, no matter what Defensive rating suggests...that's called COMMON SENSE, try it some time......

[SlayerEnraged]

I guarantee you under ANY set of rules that the 1991 Bulls with prime Jordan, Pippen and Grant (104.5 Drating) is a much GREATER defensive team than the 2003 Wizards with old-ass Jordan, Jerry Stackhouse and Popeye Jones....(104.1 Drating)

Drtg's show this isn't a no defense league like u idiots try preeching. If we can't compare Drtg of this era then why can we compare stats of players from one era to another?

[SlayerEnraged]

I guarantee you under ANY set of rules that the 1991 Bulls with prime Jordan, Pippen and Grant (104.5 Drating) is a much GREATER defensive team than the 2003 Wizards with old-ass Jordan, Jerry Stackhouse and Popeye Jones....(104.1 Drating)

Drtg's show this isn't a no defense league like u idiots try preeching. If we can't compare Drtg of this era then why can we compare stats of players from one era to another?