Would you trade Greg Oden for Tim Duncan?

[West-Side]

"Rarefied air" is being unstoppable. Duncan has 4 rings. Shaq has 4 rings. Jordan has 6 rings (maybe could have had a couple more). I am being a bit presumptuous by putting LeBron in that so fast, but I'd say he has a claim seeing as how he's only 22 and has already led his team to the NBA Finals. You can get me on the LeBron, but that doesn't mean that Hakeem, Kobe, or Pippen belong in the same category as Jordan, O'Neal, and Duncan.

Uhmm, like I said............and Hakeem does belong in the same category as DUNCAN...you should replace Hakeem with Duncan.

ou can get me on the LeBron, but that doesn't mean that Duncan, Kobe, or Pippen belong in the same category as Jordan, O'Neal, and Hakeem.

There I boosted your IQ a bit.

[West-Side]

I don't care how many times you edit your retarded posts, anyone that actually say something along the line of "Hakeem doesn't belong in the same category as Duncan" shouldn't be using the word "dumbass" in reference to anyone but themselves.

[fatboy11]

You named Jordan, Duncan, LeBron and Shaq as the most "unstoppable" forces since 85'...what does that have to do with championships?

Especially since LeBron is yet to win ONE...just give up, you got exposed in this thread...and BTW, if you were 3 years old in 86', you shouldn't be calling me a kid, hence I'm older then you.

The only one exposed is you. Exposed for you lack of understanding for what I'm saying.

Since '85, what elite players was won more titles than Jordan, Shaq, and Duncan?

I included LeBron because I think he will be in that category when we look back in 10 years. [COLOR="Red"]But, ONCE AGAIN, I will say that I was ahead of myself in that claim[/COLOR].

[fatboy11]

I don't care how many times you edit your retarded posts, anyone that actually say something along the line of "Hakeem doesn't belong in the same category as Duncan" shouldn't be using the word "dumbass" in reference to anyone but themselves.

I edited one post and, if you read the thread, it is clear that I admitted an error there, too.

And no, I'm not going to include Hakeem because he only won 2 (which is fantastic, but not "rarefied") and, IMO, maybe only because Jordan was retired (I think they would have had a shot against the Bulls, but not sure).

I'm not going to change what I think because you don't agree with it. Get over it.

[beau_boy04]

Serious question, guys.

No because you don't trade young for old specially when your whole squadron (Portland) is so young. Tim Duncan might be able to get you a title or two in Portland and thats it he will be declining. Plus Portland starting lineup don't have much playoff exposure which will hinder Duncan's effectiveness. They will rather take their chances with Oden. The only player Portland will trade Oden's right for is Lebron James. LB is already a superstar at 22 years of age and he happens to play the 3 which is the weakest position of Portland.

[Lebron23]

http://www.ibiblio.org/craig/draft/1...t/scout/c.html


Name: Tim Duncan
College: Wake Forest
Class: Senior
Height: 6-10
Weight: 248
Born: April 25, 1976
Position: Center
Other Positions: Power Forward

Stats
G MIN FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA REB PF AST TO BLK STL PTS
93-94 Wake Forest 33 997 120 220 1 1 82 110 317 82 30 40 124 12 323
94-95 Wake Forest 32 1168 208 352 3 7 118 159 401 78 67 91 135 13 537
95-96 Wake Forest 32 1194 228 411 7 23 149 217 395 74 93 105 120 22 612
96-97 Wake Forest 31 1137 234 385 6 22 171 269 457 69 98 99 102 22 645
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS 128 4496 790 1368 17 53 520 755 1570 303 288 335 481 69 2117


MIN FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG TPG BPG SPG PPG
93-94 Wake Forest 30.2 54.5 100.0 74.5 9.6 0.9 1.2 3.8 0.4 9.8
94-95 Wake Forest 36.5 59.1 42.9 74.2 12.5 2.1 2.8 4.2 0.4 16.8
95-96 Wake Forest 37.3 55.5 30.4 68.7 12.3 2.9 3.3 3.8 0.7 19.1
96-97 Wake Forest 36.7 60.8 27.3 63.6 14.7 3.2 3.2 3.3 0.7 20.8
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS 35.1 57.7 32.1 68.9 12.3 2.3 2.6 3.8 0.5 16.5


NBA.com Profile
Poop (Scout:Kevin Lachance)

Duncan is the best player available in the draft and a lock to be the
first overall pick. He has the ability to become a NBA superstar.

Scouts have mixed opinions on Duncan's NBA position. He may be a more
dominant player early on in his career at power forward but has the
tools to be a dominant center. His position will depend on the team
that selects him.

In terms of comparisions I have heard David Robinson and Brad Daughtery.

I feel Hakeem Olajuwon is a closer comparison because of his mobility
and size.

In terms of physical skills Duncan has great mobility. He is capable of
consistantly beating his man down the court. He has long arms and
excellent timing for blocking shots. His footwork on post moves is
constantly improving.

In terms of basketball skills, Duncan has the total package. Duncan can
score is a variety of ways. He can take his man down low with an
assortment of post moves. He uses the glass well on his turn around
jump shot. He can also step outside and hit the mid-range jumper.
Duncan's passing ability is incredible for a player of his size and
experience. He led Wake Forest in assists. Duncan handles the ball
better than most post players.

Duncan greatest attribute is his defense. He averaged double figures in
rebounds in his final three years of college. This past season he
averaged close to fifteen boards a game. Duncan can swat shots with the
best of them. He is the all-time blocked shots leader in the history of
the NCAA.

Despite his overall game he has a few things to work on. His biggest
need is adding strength and weight. He will need to adjust to the power
of the NBA. He needs to continue to develop is offensive game. One
concern is his low free throw percentage (64%). However, his was his
lowest total of his four years.

As NBA Scouting Director, Marty Blake says "He may be the most complete
player to enter the NBA in the last ten years".


More Poop (Scout: Philip Kasiecki)

Tim Duncan is not the most talented player in this draft. However,
he is the best player in it, and he will be a successful NBA player,
both because of his style of play. For Duncan, it is simple: he plays.
He plays hard every minute, with confidence and emotion, at both ends of
the floor, and he plays to win. He has a winning attitude that will
greatly help the team that drafts him, going beyond what he will do that
shows up in the box score.

Duncan is the type of player who can lift his team with his play,
as he can take over games at either end of the floor, and is the
consummate team player. He can dominate defensively, as he is an
excellent shot-blocker and rebounder. At the offensive end, he is
constantly adding to his game, as he has expanded his shooting range
with time. When double-teamed, he will pass the ball back out to an
open teammate; he involves his teammates as though he were a point
guard, as he realizes that he alone will not win ball games.

Duncan will be a franchise player because he makes his teammates
better, in addition to being a great individual talent. He averaged a
double-double in each of his last two seasons in college, in scoring and
rebounding.

If Tim Duncan is not the first pick in the draft, the GM doing the
selecting will be referred to the best psychologist within a fifty-mile
radius. This holds even if the team selecting first is set at center,
as Duncan can play power forward as well.


More Poop (Scout: mmaurer@bellatlantic.net)
Duncan is one of college's most dominating centers to play the game since
HAKEEM OLAJUWAN. Duncan makes all the right plays offensively which is
perhaps his only weakness is that it is raw but still devloping.
He is a HUGE defensive presence in the paint as a rebounder and a
shot-blocker. He isn't the kind of leader that some coaches would prefer.
But if you look at wake forest's record you'll see that he did just fine.
If he had desired to go into the past 2 drafts he would have been number
1 overall. But there is no douting that he is a huge talent that will
surely devolp into a fine superstar his averages
20.8 PPG, 14.7 RPG, AND 2.9 APG. This is the most complete player i've
sen in years


More Poop (Scout: dedelman@acpub.duke.edu)

Tim Duncan-- An extraordinary college ballplayer; if you haven't seen
him night in and night out you can't appreciate it. Needed badly to
stay the extra year to work on his offense, but now has excellent
footwork inside. Can nail the mid-range J. Good rebounder, both
athletic and technical; reasonably good shot-blocker. Man defense not
really tested in the ACC (no other centers of note). Starts as a 12/10
guy like Mutombo (fewer blocks) but his work ethic could make him into
an Olajuwon type. To my mind a very easy #1 pick, the only guaranteed
star and the most probable superstar in the draft.

Worst he could be: Otis Thorpe with a few assists thrown in.
Best he could be: Olajuwon.

[fatboy11]

http://www.ibiblio.org/craig/draft/1...t/scout/c.html


Name: Tim Duncan
College: Wake Forest
Class: Senior
Height: 6-10
Weight: 248
Born: April 25, 1976
Position: Center
Other Positions: Power Forward

Stats
G MIN FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA REB PF AST TO BLK STL PTS
93-94 Wake Forest 33 997 120 220 1 1 82 110 317 82 30 40 124 12 323
94-95 Wake Forest 32 1168 208 352 3 7 118 159 401 78 67 91 135 13 537
95-96 Wake Forest 32 1194 228 411 7 23 149 217 395 74 93 105 120 22 612
96-97 Wake Forest 31 1137 234 385 6 22 171 269 457 69 98 99 102 22 645
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS 128 4496 790 1368 17 53 520 755 1570 303 288 335 481 69 2117


MIN FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG TPG BPG SPG PPG
93-94 Wake Forest 30.2 54.5 100.0 74.5 9.6 0.9 1.2 3.8 0.4 9.8
94-95 Wake Forest 36.5 59.1 42.9 74.2 12.5 2.1 2.8 4.2 0.4 16.8
95-96 Wake Forest 37.3 55.5 30.4 68.7 12.3 2.9 3.3 3.8 0.7 19.1
96-97 Wake Forest 36.7 60.8 27.3 63.6 14.7 3.2 3.2 3.3 0.7 20.8
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS 35.1 57.7 32.1 68.9 12.3 2.3 2.6 3.8 0.5 16.5


NBA.com Profile
Poop (Scout:Kevin Lachance)

Duncan is the best player available in the draft and a lock to be the
first overall pick. He has the ability to become a NBA superstar.

Scouts have mixed opinions on Duncan's NBA position. He may be a more
dominant player early on in his career at power forward but has the
tools to be a dominant center. His position will depend on the team
that selects him.

In terms of comparisions I have heard David Robinson and Brad Daughtery.

I feel Hakeem Olajuwon is a closer comparison because of his mobility
and size.

In terms of physical skills Duncan has great mobility. He is capable of
consistantly beating his man down the court. He has long arms and
excellent timing for blocking shots. His footwork on post moves is
constantly improving.

In terms of basketball skills, Duncan has the total package. Duncan can
score is a variety of ways. He can take his man down low with an
assortment of post moves. He uses the glass well on his turn around
jump shot. He can also step outside and hit the mid-range jumper.
Duncan's passing ability is incredible for a player of his size and
experience. He led Wake Forest in assists. Duncan handles the ball
better than most post players.

Duncan greatest attribute is his defense. He averaged double figures in
rebounds in his final three years of college. This past season he
averaged close to fifteen boards a game. Duncan can swat shots with the
best of them. He is the all-time blocked shots leader in the history of
the NCAA.

Despite his overall game he has a few things to work on. His biggest
need is adding strength and weight. He will need to adjust to the power
of the NBA. He needs to continue to develop is offensive game. One
concern is his low free throw percentage (64%). However, his was his
lowest total of his four years.

As NBA Scouting Director, Marty Blake says "He may be the most complete
player to enter the NBA in the last ten years".


More Poop (Scout: Philip Kasiecki)

Tim Duncan is not the most talented player in this draft. However,
he is the best player in it, and he will be a successful NBA player,
both because of his style of play. For Duncan, it is simple: he plays.
He plays hard every minute, with confidence and emotion, at both ends of
the floor, and he plays to win. He has a winning attitude that will
greatly help the team that drafts him, going beyond what he will do that
shows up in the box score.

Duncan is the type of player who can lift his team with his play,
as he can take over games at either end of the floor, and is the
consummate team player. He can dominate defensively, as he is an
excellent shot-blocker and rebounder. At the offensive end, he is
constantly adding to his game, as he has expanded his shooting range
with time. When double-teamed, he will pass the ball back out to an
open teammate; he involves his teammates as though he were a point
guard, as he realizes that he alone will not win ball games.

Duncan will be a franchise player because he makes his teammates
better, in addition to being a great individual talent. He averaged a
double-double in each of his last two seasons in college, in scoring and
rebounding.

If Tim Duncan is not the first pick in the draft, the GM doing the
selecting will be referred to the best psychologist within a fifty-mile
radius. This holds even if the team selecting first is set at center,
as Duncan can play power forward as well.


More Poop (Scout: mmaurer@bellatlantic.net)
Duncan is one of college's most dominating centers to play the game since
HAKEEM OLAJUWAN. Duncan makes all the right plays offensively which is
perhaps his only weakness is that it is raw but still devloping.
He is a HUGE defensive presence in the paint as a rebounder and a
shot-blocker. He isn't the kind of leader that some coaches would prefer.
But if you look at wake forest's record you'll see that he did just fine.
If he had desired to go into the past 2 drafts he would have been number
1 overall. But there is no douting that he is a huge talent that will
surely devolp into a fine superstar his averages
20.8 PPG, 14.7 RPG, AND 2.9 APG. This is the most complete player i've
sen in years


More Poop (Scout: dedelman@acpub.duke.edu)

Tim Duncan-- An extraordinary college ballplayer; if you haven't seen
him night in and night out you can't appreciate it. Needed badly to
stay the extra year to work on his offense, but now has excellent
footwork inside. Can nail the mid-range J. Good rebounder, both
athletic and technical; reasonably good shot-blocker. Man defense not
really tested in the ACC (no other centers of note). Starts as a 12/10
guy like Mutombo (fewer blocks) but his work ethic could make him into
an Olajuwon type. To my mind a very easy #1 pick, the only guaranteed
star and the most probable superstar in the draft.

Worst he could be: Otis Thorpe with a few assists thrown in.
Best he could be: Olajuwon.

You are missing the point as well, my friend.

Comprehension: It's your friend.

[ZHAKIDD532]

I think in their primes, comparitively, Duncan will be the better player. But now, you can't trade a guy like Oden for someone who's 10 years older, no matter who he is...

If the Blazers had wanted to do it, I wonder if the Spurs would consider it...probably not...

[johndeeregreen]

You don't know that and I don't know that. He could be the next Bill Russell. Potential > Duncan and his old age. Duncan sucks on defense in my opinion. Oden did all he did leading his team to the finals with 1 hand...!!! Rebounding with one arm most of the season.

Oden is faster, can jump higher, and is strong as hell for his age. Oden a million times over Tim Duncan.

And people wonder why I'm oft "angry" on this site.

[SsKSpurs21]

You don't know that and I don't know that. He could be the next Bill Russell. Potential > Duncan and his old age. Duncan sucks on defense in my opinion. Oden did all he did leading his team to the finals with 1 hand...!!! Rebounding with one arm most of the season.

Oden is faster, can jump higher, and is strong as hell for his age. Oden a million times over Tim Duncan.

LOL, WOW!

Oden could be the next bill russell but he also could be another Same Bowie. remember him? I hope you guys dont make the same mistake twice.

and dont kid yourself, Tim Duncan was a beast in college. He was named John Wooden best overall player, he averaged 20points and 14 rebounds. finished his college career as the leading shot blocker in NCAA history, and is one of only 10 players with more than 2,000 career points and 1,500 career rebounds. He was also the first player in NCAA history to reach 1,500 points, 1,000 rebounds, 400 blocked shots and 200 assists.

duncan sucks on defense? lol yea i guess being NBA all defense FIRST team your entire career means nothing.

[fatboy11]

LOL, WOW!

Oden could be the next bill russell but he also could be another Same Bowie. remember him? I hope you guys dont make the same mistake twice.

and dont kid yourself, Tim Duncan was a beast in college. He was named John Wooden best overall player, he averaged 20points and 14 rebounds. finished his college career as the leading shot blocker in NCAA history, and is one of only 10 players with more than 2,000 career points and 1,500 career rebounds. He was also the first player in NCAA history to reach 1,500 points, 1,000 rebounds, 400 blocked shots and 200 assists.

duncan sucks on defense? lol yea i guess being NBA all defense FIRST team your entire career means nothing.

But.....but.....but...........he's been dunked on by Kobe!!!!!!!

[WoGiTaLiA1]

This thread lost the point somewhere in there.

Hakeem is a superior player to Duncan. That doesnt mean Duncan isn't the best player playing right now, it just means Hakeem was better but it is not some massive gap and statistically Duncan is superior.

It's actually funny when you look at it. Hakeem basically got everything he should have(maybe 1 more MVP but Robinson deserved it as well). Duncan has been massively robbed throughout his career but Hakeem is a better player.

You would have to consider the team trading for Duncan here though. Blazers should probably flip a coin, Seattle should trade for Duncan. Most of the rest of the lottery shouldn't do the deal because as good as Duncan is their teams arent really ready. It is funny this year though, the teams at the top of the lottery are not bad teams as far as talent goes. Talent wise Seattle are comparable to the Spurs outside of Duncan, possibly even better.

Oden is tough to gage. To me he is very raw and thus is a big risk if you are giving up Duncan for him.

they did not replace shaq with a dominant big man for the rest of the 10 years. AND we are talking about replacing an OLD shaq not a young shaq. its called getting maximum value out of a player to save the competivness of a team for years to come

That is kind of my point actually, only it is even more the case with Oden. Shaq actually made the Magic a contender from day 1 and a serious one from the 2nd season on but he wasnt there in 5 years time. Oden is most likely going to take 3 years before he is at the level of a rookie Shaq(if he ever gets there). I mean when you consider that it makes trading for Duncan a much more reasonable prospect. If you assume that Oden is 15 years and Duncan is 5 and that's that then Oden wins most times. If however you consider that Oden may only be on the team that drafts him for 5 years and then leave, well then you start thinking about the trade and it is a realistic possibility. Portland has had a very hard time with FA in recent times. My point is basically that if you trade for Duncan, you have him for 5 years and then you start again. If you draft Oden you might also only have him for 5 years and in my opinion he is only going to be giving you a title shot in year 5 of that, and that's with a positive outlook.

To me this situation is most comparable to the Brand for Chandler trade. Many people felt that Chandler was bigger and more athletic and would play comparable defense to Brand but would have to develop the offense. More than that, everyone thought he would leave LAC after his rookie contract and that getting Brand was a good risk. Oden is clearly a better prospect and Brand was younger than Duncan is(and not as good) but it is the same idea. Some teams would make the deal, some wouldn't.

Personally I'd make the move with probably 20 of the teams in the league. Teams like Atlanta, Charlotte, Philly and most importantly Portland shouldn't do the deal. Portland do need to make a move though, I'd move Randolph if I could but Aldridge has to be considered. One of them needs to be moved though for sure. You dont want a Jermaine O'Neal situation with Aldridge and Randolph isnt going to be a 6th man. I'd be talking to Indiana to see if they want to give Randolph a go and see if I can get Granger off them.

[RoseCity07]

LOL, WOW!

Oden could be the next bill russell but he also could be another Same Bowie. remember him? I hope you guys dont make the same mistake twice.

First of all we didn't tank all year long to get the number one pick. So regardless, even if Oden is a complete flop it's the best option out there. As the saying goes, "It's all gravy". We can't lose.

I have seen the great shooters like Kobe, TMac, Wade, Dirk, Allen. None of that can get you a championship with out a dominant center. If Durant played like a god and by a miracle became better than Jordan than it still wouldn't matter. Oden was the better option at the time and is overwhelmingly the better choice.

[RoseCity07]

Oden is most likely going to take 3 years before he is at the level of a rookie Shaq(if he ever gets there)

Uh....Oden had better numbers in college than Shaq and Hakeem and only had one hand to use most of the season. The guy was shooting about 60% free throws with his left hand. Snatching rebounds with his left arm. Blocking a game winning shot in root to the NCAA finals.

I don't think it's going to be 3 years. Brandon Roy looked like a seasoned pro all year long (even with a injured hand and bad heal). Hitting clutch 3's to send games into over time, crossing people over to get baskets in crunch time. No reason to think there is always going to be such a long rookie curve.

[AtTheDriveIn]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...onealsh01.html

15/10 > 27/15