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  1. #31
    Samurai Swoosh
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    Default Re: Everything that is Overrated (Breaking Bad and Marvel Studios)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackass18
    Iron Man 2 was good
    No it wasn't. The character starts off as a regressed version of the improvement at the end of the first film. Which in itself makes no sense.

    There is a redundant plot point of Stark's Arc Reactor poisoning him (the same thing the shrapnel nearing his heart does) ... thus contrived.

    Stark has a ridiculous fight in an armored suit v.s. his friend. Who happens to be able to steal and use a suit without an prior experience (it took Stark a whole act to master it in the first film and he built the damn thing) ... how he uses the suit I have no idea. It was built for Tony, and can only be powered by the ARC REACTOR in his chest.

    In the first film we see that Stane could only make his suit work by stealing the arc reactor from Tony's chest.

    Whiplash is under used, the love story is rushed, the whole thing is cheesy and tongue in cheek. We get a pointless Scarlett Johansen character, who brings nothing to the table apart from meaningless action scene and a connection tot he Avengers.

    The film was rushed into production, and the studio pushed too hard for the Avengers agenda plot point. This is why the director, and even RDJ have gone on record having stated they felt like con men when promoting it, and thought it wasn't very good.

    The film is sloppy. A mess of ideas with no coherent story, other than to promote the Avengers movie. It was a cash grab, residual sequel to an actual quality film.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackass18
    Thor was rushed but still a good movie
    Hardly, it was average at best. It can't even take itself seriously ... and it acknowledges this premise quite often in the film.

    There is ridiculous melodrama in Asgard, and absurdity when they come to New Mexico. "The Rainbow Bridge" ... don't make me

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackass18
    the Cap movie had plenty of heart.
    No. It had Stanely Tucci in the first act who delivers, and at times entertaining Tommy Lee Jones, then the film nose dives from there.

    With it's ridiculous CGI on skinny bobble head Rogers, painfully obvious green screen, goofy looking Red Skull, wooden lead actor (and a protagonist who makes Clark Kent look like an interesting bad boy) ... it even features a horrendous 80's montage used to display the entire WWII combat in less than a few minutes.

    How do you have CA fighting in WWII and not address Nazi's thoroughly? Hell, the comics even had the balls to do that when the character was created.

    That ridiculous cheap video game level inspired train sequence. Losing his best friend, and forgotten about in less than a scene.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackass18
    Superhero movies can still be good if they're not all dark and serious like the Batman movies.
    I didn't say they had to be dark, mysterious, and bleak like noir inspired Batman movies.

    They can be interesting, thought provoking, and not cookie cutter commercials for some other potential product.

    Hell, the CA movie doesn't even have a resolution. It's just a lead in for the next movie. It's pathetic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jackass18
    was watching the original Superman the other day and that movie is cheesy
    It's cheesy in parts because film makers had yet to truly take these characters seriously as real drama pieces, where statements could be made.

    The thrill of the first Superman, the first Batman, and the first Spider-Man was purely the fun of seeing these characters on screen. They were tongue in cheek, but didn't tap the true potential of the characters.

    But S:TM delivered the epic, grand, formulaic origin for a superhero film. It had great performances from Reeve, Hackman, Stamp, and Brando. The script on page just didn't treat things seriously enough yet.

    But it kick started the entire genre on screen. Show some respect. We will get the serious, modern, contemporary Superman movie we deserve next summer.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jackass18
    How can you praise that but then shit on well done movies that are nowhere near as cheesy as that movie? You must be a DC fanboy or something.
    Nope, did you miss the parts where I praise Iron Man and Blade?

    This is the point. Marvel Studios plays it safe. They give mass marketed, cookie cutter product that look to deliver on average to the average movie goer a good time. And for the most part, they do.

    Like I said, average movies. They bat for average (even though technically they have more abominations than DC movies) ... DC swings for the fences with their artistic integrity.

    That's why I respect their films, more. No lead ins for the next film that has already been planned on a planogram in a marketing studio's office. They put everything they have, with unique vision into each film.

    And like I said, the greatest Marvel Studio film isn't as good as the worst of the Nolan trilogy. And DC has been more influential. They built the entire genre on screen, allowing for credible competition to even get off the ground. Then through Batman Begins, they laid the foundation for the more serious, in depth, realistic interpretations of these characters on screen.

    You never heard of "re-boot" before Batman Begins.

  2. #32
    The Iron Price Jackass18's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything that is Overrated (Breaking Bad and Marvel Studios)

    Quote Originally Posted by Money 23
    No it wasn't. The character starts off as a regressed version of the improvement at the end of the first film. Which in itself makes no sense.
    The movie isn't fresh in my mind so I can't argue every point. I don't quite remember the beginning, but Tony is obviously a flawed person, so why would it make no sense? At the end of the first movie he says: "I'm just not the hero type. Clearly. With this laundry list of character defects, all the mistakes I've made, largely public."

    There is a redundant plot point of Stark's Arc Reactor poisoning him (the same thing the shrapnel nearing his heart does) ... thus contrived.
    I'm not sure what you're even trying to argue here. Was he supposed to completely fix the problem in the first movie without fail?

    Stark has a ridiculous fight in an armored suit v.s. his friend. Who happens to be able to steal and use a suit without an prior experience (it took Stark a whole act to master it in the first film and he built the damn thing) ... how he uses the suit I have no idea. It was built for Tony, and can only be powered by the ARC REACTOR in his chest.
    Are you sure of any of that? It's shown that they're good friends and that he has access.

    Whiplash is under used, the love story is rushed, the whole thing is cheesy and tongue in cheek. We get a pointless Scarlett Johansen character, who brings nothing to the table apart from meaningless action scene and a connection tot he Avengers.
    There was too much going on to give more focus to Whiplash. It's not like he was a major villain anyway. I thought he was used well for what he was. Pointless? She added a bit of comedy, and she was there to evaluate Tony.

    The film is sloppy. A mess of ideas with no coherent story, other than to promote the Avengers movie. It was a cash grab, residual sequel to an actual quality film.
    It seemed plenty coherent to me. I'm not trying to say it's on the same level as the first one, but it's still a good movie.

    Hardly, it was average at best. It can't even take itself seriously ... and it acknowledges this premise quite often in the film.

    There is ridiculous melodrama in Asgard, and absurdity when they come to New Mexico. "The Rainbow Bridge" ... don't make me
    Um, OK. Kind of bland, general, broad, not really saying much critique there.

    With it's ridiculous CGI on skinny bobble head Rogers, painfully obvious green screen, goofy looking Red Skull, wooden lead actor (and a protagonist who makes Clark Kent look like an interesting bad boy) ... it even features a horrendous 80's montage used to display the entire WWII combat in less than a few minutes.
    I didn't have any problems with the special effects. Evans isn't the greatest actor, but he wasn't supposed to be a charismatic Tony Stark-type anyways. He's kind of bland like Superman depending on the situation.

    Hell, the CA movie doesn't even have a resolution. It's just a lead in for the next movie. It's pathetic.
    How is that pathetic? It obviously wasn't going to end here and they did a good job of introducing and building his character, which is kind of the point.

    It's cheesy in parts because film makers had yet to truly take these characters seriously as real drama pieces, where statements could be made.
    I was cringing watching that movie.

    Nope, did you miss the parts where I praise Iron Man and Blade?
    I certainly didn't miss the part where you were overly critical of Marvel movies while not only excusing but praising a hokey, cringe-inducing Superman movie with shit dialogue. Oh, you have problem how things look in the Marvel movies, but no problems with Superman? They should waited before trying a movie like Superman.

    This is the point. Marvel Studios plays it safe. They give mass marketed, cookie cutter product that look to deliver on average to the average movie goer a good time. And for the most part, they do.
    They're not playing it safe in all of them. When they try that, you get something like Daredevil, Ghost Rider or a Spiderman 3. You could tell the effort just wasn't there. CA can actually be seen as a fairly good war movie.

    Like I said, average movies. They bat for average (even though technically they have more abominations than DC movies) ... DC swings for the fences with their artistic integrity.
    A number of them aren't average, but you want to be so damn overly critical for whatever reasons. They're actually well done and planned out movies that for the most part accomplish what they set out to, but for whatever you can't sit back and enjoy them. Even the majority of critics liked them, but you want to compare them to a movie that critics and moviegoers all seem to hate in Green Lantern (I haven't seen it yet, but heard nothing but bad things about it)? Your comments just seem to have DC fanboy all over them.

    That's why I respect their films, more. No lead ins for the next film that has already been planned on a planogram in a marketing studio's office. They put everything they have, with unique vision into each film.
    Like it's a bad thing that Marvel has this giant plan for a big universe of movies that all fit together (well, not all, but a bunch)? To me, that's ****ing awesome. Wait, isn't DC trying something similar, as well?

    You never heard of "re-boot" before Batman Begins.
    And, now there's going to be a Batman reboot.
    Last edited by Jackass18; 12-04-2012 at 02:06 AM.

  3. #33
    NBA All-star chazzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything that is Overrated (Breaking Bad and Marvel Studios)

    Breaking Bad gets better and better as it continues. Season 4 was the best IMO, I would re-evaluate after you're completely caught up. The growing unlikeability of the protagonist is part of the evolution of the show.

  4. #34
    7-time NBA All-Star Droid101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything that is Overrated (Breaking Bad and Marvel Studios)

    Quote Originally Posted by chazzy
    Breaking Bad gets better and better as it continues. Season 4 was the best IMO, I would re-evaluate after you're completely caught up. The growing unlikeability of the protagonist is part of the evolution of the show.
    Season 4 is the best, and quite frankly, if they ended the show on that season's finale, it'd be the best television show finale of all time.

    I doubt they can top it with season 5's finale, but I'm sure they'll try.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Everything that is Overrated (Breaking Bad and Marvel Studios)

    Quote Originally Posted by Money 23
    I have, and it gradually gets more and more ridiculous.

    Plot contrivances GALORE. Tons of conveniences, too many to seem plausible. And they get worse as the seasons progress, yo.

    Can you give examples of any of these in the show? Cause everyone I know that has watched this show loves it, and I've never heard of any of the criticisms you've given. IMO the way they tie everything together is great and there's been nothing thats just ridiculous and borderline unrealistic unlike a show like Homeland for example (which is still a great show). To each his own, just curious.

  6. #36
    B-Eazy Mike Beasley MichaelCheazley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything that is Overrated (Breaking Bad and Marvel Studios)

    If try something and you start it with skepticism you are likely to focus more on the negatives. If you open mindedly tried watching the show then youd probable enjoy it.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Everything that is Overrated (Breaking Bad and Marvel Studios)

    Jesse is by far the best actor on the show. Skylar is awful. Can someone kill her? She might go down as the most annoying wife in a tv series of all-time.
    Last edited by longhornfan1234; 12-04-2012 at 12:38 PM.

  8. #38
    Serious playground baller AboveTheRim.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything that is Overrated (Breaking Bad and Marvel Studios)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jailblazers7
    I'd really like to see a well-done Hulk movie. Bruce Banner is such a great character and has the potential for a great movie.
    No love for the Edward Norton Hulk?

    I'm not saying it was great, but it's the best cinematic representation of the Hulk that I've ever seen.

  9. #39
    werewolfdolphin Dolphin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything that is Overrated (Breaking Bad and Marvel Studios)

    Money 23, do you admit that it's just your opinion that BB is not a good show and that the opinion of others who enjoy it are just as worthy...or do you think people who enjoy BB are stupid/not worthy of having an opinion?

    Sorry for the randomness of the question. Curious.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Everything that is Overrated (Breaking Bad and Marvel Studios)

    he's not calling breaking bad fans morons, he's just saying it doesn't stand up to the more groundbreaking tv dramas of our era; the wire, sopranos, mad men definitely qualifies, game of thrones as well i'd say, maybe a couple others


    the genius of breaking bad, the reason i keep tuning in anyway, is twofold; a) its fantastic take on the classic case of midlife crisis (insecure hs chemistry teacher --> hypermacho murderous druglord) and b) the realism of the problem solving in every other episode. you can really buy every idea that pops into walt's head as coming from an overqualified hs chemistry teacher, even shit like the train robbery seemed sorta kinda feasible

    that along with the fact that its a super fast paced drama about two inexperienced partners completely in over their heads facing mortal danger every other episode keeps me on the edge of my seat


    compared to those other shows though, it just doesn't have the same vision. it doesn't depict a universal human condition across a wide array of characters the way the wire or sopranos does, nor does it capture in vivid detail an epoch in time like mad men or got. boardwalk empire probably belongs in that category as well.

    those shows excel because like breaking bad they offer the sort of personal journey breaking bad excels at with walt and jesse, allowing the audience to really root for or against characters in a relatable way... but at the same time they're constantly zooming out, broadening the scope to portray more complex human ecosystems and symbiotic relationships, human motives and values and culture. breaking bad has tidbits of that but its generally shallow, with fewer layers; institutional structures of hank's dea world, competition between meth traffickers, even the business of money laundering, distribution through that crazy brunette with the kid.... not very much meat on those bones by comparison. imo anyway


    and all of that is more likely a product of a conceptual difference in what each drama is trying to achieve. bb is more akin to dexter than the wire in spite of the fact that they share a drug-centric theme. that's because it's telling a story about an individual rather than a more substantial commentary on some community, whether contemporary like the wire, historical like mad men, fantastical like got, etc
    Last edited by RidonKs; 12-04-2012 at 01:57 PM.

  11. #41
    Samurai Swoosh
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    Default Re: Everything that is Overrated (Breaking Bad and Marvel Studios)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphin
    Money 23, do you admit that it's just your opinion that BB is not a good show
    Stating that would be utterly redundant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphin
    and that the opinion of others who enjoy it are just as worthy...or do you think people who enjoy BB are stupid/not worthy of having an opinion?
    I wouldn't have made the thread if I didn't want to hear my fellow ISH'ers opinions.

    Read what Ridonks wrote. I'm not saying anyone is an idiot for liking the show, I'm explaining why I feel it doesn't meet the hype. No need for people to be so defensive. I understand people enjoy the show. Like I said, my FRIENDS begged me to get into it.

    I will go more in depth as to why I have issues with the show, and why I feel people who elevate it to the ELITE tv show / character pieces / crime dramas status like: The Wire, The Sopranos, Deadwood are vastly OVERRATING the material at hand.

    With that said, I'm not saying there isn't moments of the show that I enjoyed. But it really is few and far between. The writing relied on gimmicky hooks, character inconsistencies, contrivances, and overly convenient connections between characters as it relates to the plot.

    For those saying season 4 is great, etc. So far, it's better. But it is NOT the mark of a GREAT show, where I have to wait over 3 seasons just for it to find it's niche and groove in order to become quality entertainment.


  12. #42
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    Default Re: Everything that is Overrated (Breaking Bad and Marvel Studios)

    season 4 is great because it marks the end of walt's self-doubt... he finally makes his choice, stops straddling the family/business fence, cuts the double talk crap with skylar. it becomes much easier to appreciate the character even as you gradually start to hate his guts.



    good call on deadwood, forgot about it but it def belongs right at the top of the list

  13. #43
    the Sho Kosugi of ISH -p.tiddy-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything that is Overrated (Breaking Bad and Marvel Studios)

    In and Out Burger

    we got them here in Dallas, and they were supposed to be the greatest burgers ever...according to Cali peeps anyway


    NOT



    EVEN



    CLOSE


    we have some burger spots here in Dallas that would make you bust a nut Cali

  14. #44
    Not airballing my layups anymore bigdaddyfunk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything that is Overrated (Breaking Bad and Marvel Studios)

    Everything is up to personal taste. You can call it "overrated," somebody else will call it "underrated."

    Stuff like this isn't up for debate - it is simply a matter of what people like. It's like debating rapper A and rapper B. Even if rapper B has no bars, some people will still like rapper B over rapper A and call rapper A overrated.

  15. #45
    Not airballing my layups anymore bigdaddyfunk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything that is Overrated (Breaking Bad and Marvel Studios)

    Quote Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
    In and Out Burger

    we got them here in Dallas, and they were supposed to be the greatest burgers ever...according to Cali peeps anyway


    NOT



    EVEN



    CLOSE


    we have some burger spots here in Dallas that would make you bust a nut Cali
    Once again, personal taste lol. In-N-Out is good, but there are tons of better burger places in Cali. It's just the most wide spread fast food burger in Cali.

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