Biden v. Ryan debate.

[JtotheIzzo]

Ryan did a decent job of talking about his foreign policy philosophy and how it differed from what Obama has done and that's about as much as you can do.

Did he? I must have missed that part, refresh my memory, what did he say, how was it different? Oh, you are talking shit, ok, got it.

[Scoooter]

Yeah, that was probably the most egregiously asinine part of the night for Ryan. He spared no criticism of the current administration, but when pressed, his own position, as I gathered, was basically that the Romney-Ryan administration would stick to all of the same time-lines the current administration has plans to adhere to, but without the wide-spread international support the current plans have. So, do everything the same, but somehow make the rest of the world stop liking it.

How they accomplish something like that - or why they'd want to - is unclear.

[IcanzIIravor]

So are you saying that Obama supported the wars and the waterboarding of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed?

Obama supported the Afghan war. He didn't support the Iraq war. No one in their right mind supported the water boarding of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. Are we even sure to this day that it was the water boarding that actually broke him? The actionable intelligence that came out of Khalid was put to use well before Obama came to power as well, so I am not sure why you are bringing that up. I take it you supported our invasion of Iraq so you support the Neocon vision of the middle east or do you think it is our job to overthrow dictators in that part of the world?

[rufuspaul]

All killed in wars that he opposed using intelligence gathering techniques that he opposed. Somehow he gets to be against these things and also take credit for them. Must be nice.

I have a big problem with Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize and then continuing in clandestine killing, proudly boasting when he hits an Al Qaeda member despite killing untold numbers of innocents in countries against which we are not at war. It's more than a little two-faced.

[KevinNYC]

Originally Posted by Kobe 4 The Win
All killed in wars that he opposed using intelligence gathering techniques that he opposed. Somehow he gets to be against these things and also take credit for them. Must be nice.

This is a joke right?
Obama was not against the War in Afghanistan and campaigned on focusing more on it. He opposed the invasion of Iraq and history has proven that solid judgment.
He campaigned on being willing to go into Pakistan to get Bin Laden and he did it. McCain attacked him for this.
He has stepped up the war on Al Queda in Yemen.

Also what intelligence gathering techniques did he oppose? He opposed torture which aside from being completely Unamerican, it's also known by the FBI and the US military that it's not actually a way to gather intelligence. The FBI interrogator who interrogated Abu Zubaydah notes all the actionable intelligence we got out of him, came before we started torturing him via waterboarding. What they ended up getting was a load of shit. Invesitgators who tasked with following up this intelligence came away saying 99% was useless and just wasted their time.

The techniques the CIA came up with was complete amateur hour. The reverse-engineering techniques used by totalitarian governments to break people, not to get to the truth. Do you think the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia was interested in the truth? Do you think the US should use the same techniques as the Khmer Rouge.?

Also the legal justification for CIA torture was REVOKED during Bush's first term when Jack Goldsmith took over the Office of Legal Council.. So are you saying that all these people were killed in 2010, 2011 and 2012 because of what happened before 2005? Bullshit. Simple bullshit.

I have a big problem with Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize and then continuing in clandestine killing, proudly boasting when he hits an Al Qaeda member despite killing untold numbers of innocents in countries against which we are not at war. It's more than a little two-faced.

Have you read Obama's Nobel acceptance speech? It will give you some insight into who he actually is. Both left and right often misread him.

[KevinNYC]

Interesting bit on the drone attacks in Waziristan and how the locals think of them. Wonder if it's true.