Should Heat keep Mike Miller? Will he ever be pretty good again?

[2swift4u]

Dampier can catch and dunk so long as you give him the pass above his waist.

Anything lower and he will fumble it away.

True, in fact he was the only one of the 3 centers who did that successfully every once in a while. But even Dampier missed some easy baskets, since he's not quick/explosiv enough anymore...
Anthony on the other hand is a great athlete but he's got terrible hands. And Ilgauskas doesn't even bother to get anywhere near the rim.

[Lebron23]

Heat needs some size when they play againts taller teams in the playoffs. Anthony should come off the bench. Dalembert is a better offensive player, better rebounder, and better shot blocker than the 6'7" Joel
Anthony.

[Sampsonsimpson]

I think they should keep him. He was a battling nagging injuries last year, pretty sure he had some family issues as well. When he is healthy he is as good of a player coming off the bench as you could get. He can get his own shot, he can create for teammates, and he's a great 3 shooter. Even just the year before this one when he was in Washington he put up 11/6/4 on 50/48/82.

[PJR]

It makes sense financially to jettisoned him via the amnesty. I'd imagine they try to trade him first though(to a team with capspace).

[pegasus]

LOL @ Pegasus accusing LeBron of holding back players that were 2nd options on non-playoff teams and who went on to record a historic losing streak without him.

How many times does this need to be explained to you Lebonbons?

Due to some of their other key players leaving, and some of them being injured for the majority of the season, their entire roster changed last year. It wasn't like just Lebron left and they kept the same team. If you think Lebron's impact is that great, then how come Miami failed to meet the expectations even just in the regular season (I won't even mention the finals), despite adding Lebron AND Bosh?

Plus, that historic losing streak team was still enough to beat your almighty Heat in their last match up of the season. Even they were enough to scare Lebron and make him play hot-potato in the fourth quarter.

[MeLO MvP 15]

It would be a dumb move IMO. Miller was still a good role player despite being injured and the whole thing with his newborn, he's probably healthy now and the only reason to amnesty to him IMO is if you know for sure you can get a guy like Dalembert or Barea. Then again, I'm looking at Miami's salary cap numbers is looks like they have $65 million committed to next season (without a new deal for Chalmers tho) which puts them away from the estimated $72 million luxury tax, so why would they have to waive him? They should still have the MLE with or without Miller.

If he does get amnestied, he'd be so perfect for NY. Great shooter with under-rated playmaking and rebounding ability. There was mutual interest last summer so I could see it working out. Then again, he'd have to go through the whole waiver system that's being talked about where teams with cap room (and less wins?) get to bid first, if that happens, I could see him going to the Clippers.

[Simple Jack]

How many times does this need to be explained to you Lebonbons?

Due to some of their other key players leaving, and some of them being injured for the majority of the season, their entire roster changed last year. It wasn't like just Lebron left and they kept the same team. If you think Lebron's impact is that great, then how come Miami failed to meet the expectations even just in the regular season (I won't even mention the finals), despite adding Lebron AND Bosh?

Plus, that historic losing streak team was still enough to beat your almighty Heat in their last match up of the season. Even they were enough to scare Lebron and make him play hot-potato in the fourth quarter.

Interestingly enough, those same key players; when injured in the previous season, did NOTHING to change the record of the Cavs...they were winning 70% even with Mo/Delonte/Shaq/Z injured. acting like LeBron's impact is a given number that translates over team to team exactly like it was on the Cavaliers.

The Cavaliers beat the Lakers as well...your point?

[pegasus]

Interestingly enough, those same key players; when injured in the previous season, did NOTHING to change the record of the Cavs...they were winning 70% even with Mo/Delonte/Shaq/Z injured. acting like LeBron's impact is a given number that translates over team to team exactly like it was on the Cavaliers.

The Cavaliers beat the Lakers as well...your point?

I didn't know those were all injured at the same time. Or was it just your imagination?

[Simple Jack]

I didn't know those were all injured at the same time. Or was it just your imagination?

So tell me which players exactly are the ones that you are giving the credit to. Nearly all of them missed significant stretches of the season, some together (including Mo and Delonte who they went something like 12-1 without). Could it be that the one player who had the biggest impact out of anyone in the league when he was on the floor; or was it the scrubs who got injured and had no effect on the outcome of the games?

[HurricaneKid]

So for those that didn't read my link the only advantage would be for Miami to get a 5M MLE instead of a 3M MLE.

So they would pay off a 20M contract for a solid role player to get 2M in cap space this year. There is no way this gets done.

[pegasus]

So tell me which players exactly are the ones that you are giving the credit to. Nearly all of them missed significant stretches of the season, some together (including Mo and Delonte who they went something like 12-1 without). Could it be that the one player who had the biggest impact out of anyone in the league when he was on the floor; or was it the scrubs who got injured and had no effect on the outcome of the games?

Of course Lebron had by far the biggest impact, but you can't deny the fact that he had a very good supporting cast in his last two years with Cleveland. The whole team was built around him. Otherwise, how can you explain them having the best record in the league in both years?

If you say it was all Lebron, then how come Miami didn't even come close to surpassing any of those two records with 3 superstars? I know Lebron's game declined last year, but would you say that it was all due to that?

[Simple Jack]

Of course Lebron had by far the biggest impact, but you can't deny the fact that he had a very good supporting cast in his last two years with Cleveland. The whole team was built around him. Otherwise, how can you explain them having the best record in the league in both years?

If you say it was all Lebron, then how come Miami didn't even come close to surpassing any of those two records with 3 superstars? I know Lebron's game declined last year, but would you say that it was all due to that?

Relative to what? The bottom of the playoff barell? Even some of those were better than the Cavaliers. But to suggest, that with his supporting cast, you expected the type of success that team had? To nearly tie the Celtics all-time home-record? I'm not sure anyone could have predicted that.

Here is a great post from KBlaze that I saw in another thread that addresses this issue better than I can.

I think this is a flawed question to begin with because Lebron isnt said to have no help literally...just none in comparison to others doing what they do. Nobody is calling them the same as the 03 Nuggets or anything. But they are on pace to win what? 60-64 games? consider the teams to EVER win at the rate Lebrons team is doing. This is just off the top of my head....


60s Celtics
Late 60s early 70s Knicks
Wilt 76ers and Lakers
The Celtics briefly with Hondo and Cowens
Kareem and Oscar robertsons bucks. Kareem may have done it before Oscar too.

I dont think anyone else did it in the 70s. 80s? Showtime, Birds Celtics, Docs 76ers maybe the Bucks one or two times, Isiahs Pistons towards the end and one of Drexlers teams won 63 I think. 90s you have Jordans Bulls, Barkleys suns, Ewings knicks one or two times. The Jazz. Zos Heat, the Sonics with Payton, Kemp, detlef, and so on and....The Spurs with Drob. I think the Magic hit 60 with Shaq and Penny once. Shaq won 60s one of those years in La. Maybe...98 I think?

2000s its shaqs lakers, Dirk Mavs, KGs Celtics, the 04 Pistons, Duncans Spurs, and the 03 Pacers. Oh and the Kings. Maybe the Blazers in 99 or 2000 too.

That it?

Im gonna assume the average ISH poster known enough of history that I dont need to run down those teams lineups to show how they blow the Cavs out of the water. Entire list...all history of the NBA? The only teams I see with a similar level of talent(defensive or otherwise) after its #1 that the Cavs have to work with after Bron?

Drobs Spurs unless the year they hit 60 was with Rodman, Elliot, and Avery as I think it was. Id take Rodman over anyone on the cavs period...as a defensive talent? Its a blowout.

Duncans 03 Spurs. Manu and Parker were far from stars. They had better defensive players though so if we are falling back on that to make up for offense....they are also more talented than the cavs. Peak Bowen and even an old Drob were bigger defensive talents than Lebron has to work with. Ben Wallace is still a force on his good nights but hes hardly still big Ben. Hes more....Medium Ben. Smedium eve. I watched him for 2 years on the Bulls. Hes not an every night star anymore.

If you want to call Stockton, Hornacek, and company untalented....fine. But you cant defend it. Hornacek in his prime was better than anyone but Bron on the cavs is. HE was an all star the year before he got to the Jazz. He just let a lot go to play his role. Besides...anyone gonna take anyone on the cavs over the best "pure" point of all time backed by Jerry Sloan on the bench?

What else we got? I cant think of any more of those teams even begin to compare talent wise to Lebrons. The worst may well be the 2003 Mavs who had 2MVPs and Finley and Vanexel. Them or Ewings Kniocks...with Starks, Oakley, Smith, Mason and company. Cant talk about defense being a talent and rank these Cavs as equals of those teams.

Lebron has to me easily the worst or among the worst supporting casts offensive or overall to even win the way he is now. some of them dont play the same D as the Cavs but if you tell me you want to build a team with Mo, Z, Anderson, 09 Ben Wallace, west, Wally, and Gibson as your supporting players....and not say....Tim Hardaway, Mashburn, Majerle, Pj Brown, Bowen, and Lenard? Or Shawn Kemp,/Payton whoever you put #2 Detlef, Nate,and those ballhawks?

Then youre a liar. The Cavs arent talented compared to teams that win like them. They arent even that talented compared to teams that dont win.

Will someone tell me how Wade, Marion, Haslem, Beasley and so on are miles less talented than Lebron, Z, West, Andy, and Wally? The Cavs arent that deep either. Take the first 5 players off that team and you could easily have the depthchart equal to the bottom 10 roster spots of most bad teams. They are neither deep nor top heavy Lebron aside. What they are is consistient, hard working, and led by one of the best players to ever step on a basketball court.

But they are not exceptional talents even if we consider defense as a talent. The Bulls have more talented indidivual defensive players than the Cavs for gods sake. Kirk, Deng, Tyrus, Noah, Hunter, and Hughes? as defensive talents they murder the Cavs role players. Just slaughter. And yet....they dont win.

But they would if they had Lebron. And then they would be talented I guess.

Lebrons Cavs are no more talented than the average NBA team. Winning doesnt always mean the team is talented. Just means they play well together. If chemistry is an individual talent? fine. One of the better teams in the league. But it isnt. Its very idea is based on togetherness. Cant be individually talented at chemistry I dont think, And if you could few of those players proved they were elsewhere.

Lebron isnt the entire reason they play well.....but hes enough of it that we dont need to be looking hard and redefining talent to find why they are winning.
With Lebron on that team you could replace anyone they lost by randomly selecting names from a hat and win 52-65 wins depending on who you get. Nobody but him even deserves a mention far as what they lost. They lost Lebron and 100% totally interchangeable parts. Guy took a team as bad as or worse than they have now to the finals when he was a good bit worse than he is now.

Lebron is one of the few people you can honestly say is the difference between worst team in the league...and a contender. He just is. The rest of those guys they lost...were he still there? Nobody would give a damn. Anderson is the only major loss going forward and they are on an 18-20 win pace with him so...not like he was doing anything that mattered.

[Dwyane Rose]

I think they should. I have a feeling he'll hit at least 6 3s against the Spurs on January 17th 2012.

[upside24]

I think they should. I have a feeling he'll hit at least 6 3s against the Spurs on January 17th 2012.

Repped.