The Killing [AMC] is the best show on TV period

[Thorpesaurous]

No way. Have you not seen Eastbound & Down? AMC has put out some highly interesting shows lately, but when it comes to the "best" - nothing compares to HBO. Nothing, "period"

That's fair, but they insist, it's not TV ... it's HBO!

[Myth]

Myth ive heard bad things about the first 2 seasons but season 3 is epically good give it a shot

Does it work if I skip season 2?

[Legend of Josh]

That's fair, but they insist, it's not TV ... it's HBO!

Thorp, you normally have excellent opinions when it comes to things such as television, and you're well respected here because of your opinions, so I want to ask you, personally, about a couple HBO shows.

First, Big Love. I've attempted to discuss this show with a couple folks from ISH, but it never really gets off the ground because from the get-go everyone says it sucks/sucked or they never wanted it enough to give it a fair assessment. I find that unfortunate (for them) because I think the show is amazing. I'll be honest, I haven't seen every single season (I think it's something like five or six seasons?). I would if I still had HBO on cable, but I only had HBO up until the middle of season 3. I would really love to finish it though. So, what's your opinion of the show, if you have one?


Eastbound & Down. I'm sure you've commented on this show here, I just can't recall. If you don't mind, share (again if that's the case). This one is my personal favorite. I'm so glad they're going into Season 4 when there was speculation of season 3 being the final season.

Entourage - I absolutely hated this show. I never understood why it was loved by so many. To each their own.

Sopranos. This is so embarrassing. I haven't even seen this one. I've seen a couple minutes of an episode here and there. I'm sure I'd love it just like everyone else does/did. How highly would you recommend this one? Do you feel there are/where better shows on the network?

Finally ... I'm dying to know what you think of Curb Your Enthusiasm. The acting and cast is truly special - nothing really compares to it, but what I believe is the overwhelming genius behind this show is the writing of Larry David. I have and still do hate Seinfeld. People say I'm crazy and it's just one of them shows you absolutely can't not like. I respectfully disagree. I don't know why I love Curb so much and dislike Seinfeld as equally. What's your take?

[Thorpesaurous]

Thorp, you normally have excellent opinions when it comes to things such as television, and you're well respected here because of your opinions, so I want to ask you, personally, about a couple HBO shows.

First, Big Love. I've attempted to discuss this show with a couple folks from ISH, but it never really gets off the ground because from the get-go everyone says it sucks/sucked or they never wanted it enough to give it a fair assessment. I find that unfortunate (for them) because I think the show is amazing. I'll be honest, I haven't seen every single season (I think it's something like five or six seasons?). I would if I still had HBO on cable, but I only had HBO up until the middle of season 3. I would really love to finish it though. So, what's your opinion of the show, if you have one?


Eastbound & Down. I'm sure you've commented on this show here, I just can't recall. If you don't mind, share (again if that's the case). This one is my personal favorite. I'm so glad they're going into Season 4 when there was speculation of season 3 being the final season.

Entourage - I absolutely hated this show. I never understood why it was loved by so many. To each their own.

Sopranos. This is so embarrassing. I haven't even seen this one. I've seen a couple minutes of an episode here and there. I'm sure I'd love it just like everyone else does/did. How highly would you recommend this one? Do you feel there are/where better shows on the network?

Finally ... I'm dying to know what you think of Curb Your Enthusiasm. The acting and cast is truly special - nothing really compares to it, but what I believe is the overwhelming genius behind this show is the writing of Larry David. I have and still do hate Seinfeld. People say I'm crazy and it's just one of them shows you absolutely can't not like. I respectfully disagree. I don't know why I love Curb so much and dislike Seinfeld as equally. What's your take?

Well thanks.

I've never seen Big Love. I do know it's a nice cast. I found the concept interesting, but there's only so much prestige TV one can watch, and that just didn't make the cut for me.

I do love Eastbound and Down. I actually know a guy who reminds me so much of Kenny Powers it's rediculous. He's an idiot, and an egomaniac. He's not a athlete, but a mediocre drummer. He's totally stuck in the 80s looks wise. And he does things like bless himself when a Zepplin song comes on the radio. The moment we saw EB, we immediately were drawn to him because he was Pythons (the guy actually calls himself pythons). Since then, I've definitely fallen for the show. It's intentional over the top crossing of the line absolutely kills me. I feel it's some of the best stuff Will Farrell has done.
There is an element of uneasiness I get from it though. I wonder how many people understand that Kenny, for as much as I love him, IS the joke, and I often wonder how many people think some of the pretty nasty stuff is the joke, when to me it's actually the fact that he says this stuff is the joke. It doesn't bother me, but when I talk to some people who I don't view as particularly bright, and I hear them quoting it and laughing, I often wonder what level they're getting it at. Because on the lower level, it can be a little disturbing.


I also had a dislike for Entourage. I watched some of it, albeit not religiously at all. Mostly because it was on between things I watched periodically. Ari Gold was certainly funny, but he became too much. Same with Drama. They were characters who were better suited in smaller roles as comic relief. I found most the other characters downright unlikeable. And I'm a guy who will watch a show for eye candy, especially if it's only half a half hour. But I just couldn't do it with this show. Someone once told me that the show worked in some episodes because it was almost like a travelogue. It was like watching one of those discovery channell BBQ resturant tours, where you could watch it just to get a sense of LA, but you could do it on mute and be better off.

In the greatest show ever debate, which seems to fall between The Sopranos, The Wire, Mad Men, and Breaking Bad (all of which I've seen and love), I tend to fall in The Sopranos camp. I've watched the entire series three seperate times. As it was coming out first. Then again on DVD 6 or 7 years ago, over a maybe 4 week span. And then again on re-runs over the course of a year or so last year, when HBO was re-airing the entire series on Tuesday nights. I was, like most people, frustrated with it as it came out. You wanted certain things, you expected certain things, and you'd get frustrated when they didn't happen, but upon the second and third viewings, when I was no longer concerned about the "what's gonna happen next", and couldn't be disappointed by the things I didn't get from week to week, the show actually holds up even better. And oddly, I found that the first two seasons had some strain to them. The first season was blown out from a screenplay intended to be a film, so there were some moments that felt like filler, mostly because I'm sure they were. There's an episode where AJ is playing freshman football that felt like it was written completely seperately from the rest of the plot. Season Two has a few odd moments because Nancy Marchant (who lived at the end of my friend's street growing up coincidentally, and was a surlly old sot in real life to BTW) died, and they had to convert a lot of her plot to Uncle Joon, but once it got going, from then it is incredible. Even some of the stuff people hated toward the end, like the gay Vito in Vermont stuff, was really well written stuff. It really is a great show. Some of it is the nostalgia of it's really being the first show of it's kind I'm sure, but I still truely believe that it genuinely holds up.

And Curb I honestly think is the funniest show in TV history. I just wish it was on more. I'm a huge Seinfeld guy, but after years of obsessing over that show, it was clear that George is the character that drove the show for me. And Curb is all George, and completely unfiltered. And the thing that makes it total genius to me, is that rather than come up with a character to play, he's just dumping himself in there, and maintaining the fact that he's Larry David - Millioinair Co-Creator of Seinfeld. The social observation stuff is just incredible. Incredibly well written. So astutely told. I find that I'm consistently surprised at how the show ends up, even though I sense I know the joke right from the get go. It's fascinating to me, and I can't wait for the next season. He's got a movie coming out on HBO soon that I'm sure I'll watch, but I've liked less of his stuff where he's in character. In the movie he plays some long bearded aged hippie it appears. I'm sure I'll enjoy it though.

[dunksby]

I have a Non Spoiler guess as to what's going on with Seward. I put it in white (not a spoiler, just my own guess...but might not want to read it anyway.)
[COLOR="White"]
[/COLOR]
Just a guess....

Autopsy done on her body [COLOR="White"]showed her throat being slit as the cause of death and that the killer must have been really strong to have cut so deep into her neck just like the runaway girl victims. We also know that Adrian has seen where the killer had dumped the bodies from his paintings.
I think Adrian's mom takes him for a hike near the dump site (Cally's mom used to take her to the waterfront, hint?), the mother discovers the bodies which makes the killer take her out to avoid getting caught. Adrian witnesses the whole thing but the trauma does not let him say anything at the time and even now. So the police convicts his violent father with a record, Seward blames himself for not being able to protect his family and decides to shut up about it so he can protect his son.
Additionally Seward's father might have some hand in the case as well, he told his son he was proud of him that he had kept his mouth shut and was doing his time like a man. It's a weak argument but one I can't ignore.[/COLOR]

[Thorpesaurous]

Autopsy done on her body [COLOR="White"]COLOR]

I agree with one piece of your theory for sure:

[COLOR="White"]The father has something to do with it. They didn't just introduce him for no reason. He knows something. [/COLOR]

[bagelred]

OK, I'm even more convinced I'm on to something with my theory.

Here's my non-spoiler guess in white I posted before:

[COLOR="White"]I think Seward is actually protecting his son. Although not sure of details of that murder, but I think the son might have committed the murder and killed his mom. And Seward tried to cover it up by making it look like previous murders that had taken place of a seriel killer. But as it turned out, they pinned Seward for all the murders. So he's "playing" the part of the seriel killer to protect his son. But as you see, now he's becoming conflicted about it.....The real seriel killer is still out there and was never caught in the first place.[/COLOR]

And in tonight's episode, in white:

[COLOR="White"]We are getting a little symmetry and foreshadowing to what will happen in the finale. The guard's son kills his mother's lover. Which will be symmetrical to how Seward's son killed his mom. The writer's are throwing us a hint.

Also, the son is now caught in a lie, fingering the supposed killer, even though it couldn't have been him. The kid is smarter and more aware and not as traumatized as we are led to believe.

Seward had that conversation with HIS father earlier in the season, and you can see the dysfunction that basically predetermined Seward's life with a father like that. Seward is trying to save his son from a life of that, which he knows that if his son is convicted, his life will be ruined.[/COLOR]

I could be way off but I think I nailed this one. We'll see.

[Jackass18]

That was an emotionally charged episode. I hope they don't ruin this season by throwing in a needless twist at the end. I guess I'll also put my thoughts in white: [color=white]I'm thinking that Twitch (the guy who made the down payment on the apartment for his girlfriend) has a part in the murders, but I'm not really basing that on much. Maybe he's like an inside person who's friends/knows the girls and leads them to Mills, and also 'babysits' them while they're holed up in whatever location they're brought to. That one girl who escaped in a previous episode didn't ID Mills when she was shown mugshots, so someone else was involved or the girl just couldn't identify the killer and they put that in there as a red herring. There's also Lyric, but I hope they wouldn't go that route.

Then, there's Holder's ex-partner Reddick. As soon as he came out with that box of rings, he appeared suspicious like he planted it, and then in the scene where Holder is punching him you can see a big bandage on the back of his hand which could be from defensive wounds from Bullet. He was the last person to have contact with her and he didn't say anything about that call to Holder. I'm not really sure about these things as I haven't gone back and rewatched previous episodes so there could be things I'm forgetting.

I was kind of thinking that Seward would get a stay of execution at the last minute, and later freed, but then we find out he really did kill his wife, but that doesn't seem possible. I don't think they could fit that into 2 episodes. I'm thinking it's more likely that Seward is hanged, then Linden finds out that he's innocent and she feels guilty about not getting him a stay of execution (like how Holder feels guilty for not helping Bullet). Bagel may be right, though, but I'm not sure I like that angle. It would connect Seward and Becker as having killers for sons, but where would they go with that? Seward dies protecting his son while Becker is the killer? Why did Adrian falsely ID Mills? Meh, I think I'll just wait to let the last 2 episodes answer those for me instead of rewatching previous episodes for clues.[/color]

[Thorpesaurous]

I like Jackass's theory about: [COLOR="White"] ... Reddick. That bandage was way too conspicuous. He's also obviously had a hard on for Linden since his introduction to the show, and perhaps that stems from his concern about her looking into Seward's case forever. And he's also displayed some callous feelings toward that side of the track in what little we've known about him. It is a fact that Joe killed the girls. He is the serial killer. He admitted it to Callie's mom. Who would know enough about an ongoing serial killer case that was really cold, involoving street girls, to murder someone in a way that would be able to be tied to that case, more than an active on duty beat cop.
I also concur that something has to be going on with Tweak and his girl. They've spent too much time following it, including the conspicuous follow up in this episode, for it to have no pay off. But I have no idea where it could be heading. I can't see him having killed Seward's wife. He would've been too young.
I have a hunch that Reddick will wind up having killed Mrs. Seward because he'd been sleeping with her, and something happened when Seward got out of prison. Either she cut him off, or she was going to blackmail him, or something. I wouldn't be shocked if they told me Aidan was actually Reddick's kid, and the kid is protecting his real father who he saw kill his mother (he was probably nice to Aidan while Seward was in prison, like Joe was nice to Callie), while Seward protects the kid by taking the fall for the wife.

But everything in this show is just total conjecture.[/COLOR]

It has been a really good season. Maybe it's a shame that this is more than likely it for the series. Or perhaps it's run it's course anyway. Neither Linden nor Holder I believe are under contract beyond this year, and I know a big reason the show came back for a third season is because those two were still under contract, so it became cost effective. With Holder on the cusp of breaking out as Robocop, I don't see it as likely he returns to this. It's a reasonable conclusion. Linden resolves the case that haunted her as a forshadow element in season 1. And the current investigation has come to a reasonable conclusion as well. If they did another season it would have to be a completely new case anyway.
I really like the format, even if what they did dragging out season one, and then dragging it out interminably in season two, I wasn't thrilled with. I'd certainly give a shot with a new season, or whole show even, that went to a new city and had new cops and chased a single case for a whole season, as opposed to episode to episode procedurals like CSI.
Hell, I'm watching The Bridge on FX, which is sort of doing that anyway. I just don't like the cast nearly as much, and the case is already getting a little wonky.

[Jackass18]

I thought the prison guard who doesn't want to be present at the execution had something to do with it, but apparently not.

[DropStep]

Breaking Bad and Sons of Anarchy are in their own league right now.

Breaking Bad will probably end up being the GOAT because it will likely end before it gets stale.

[(e)]

Breaking Bad and Dexter > the rest.

[bagelred]

I am so right. I see it coming.

[DropStep]

Breaking Bad and Dexter > the rest.

Dexter has ran its course. Last couple of seasons have been a chore to watch

[Jackass18]

Looks like either Reddick or Skinner is involved.