Team USA

[dd24]

I'm not even sure why you are bringing this up again. Wade should not start. Do you understand anything about lineups? The USA is doing well because of their depth. Not everybody is going to score. Quit basing this on scoring. Like you said there are many intangibles that players have which stats can't capture. Kobe is full of intangibles. Why do you think the rest of the team all of the sudden is playing better defense? Kobe's intensity on defense. They have all said they learned a ton from Kobe on defense. Hasn't Coach K said already that he wanted Kidd on the team for his leadership skills. He's like an assistant coach. He keeps peoples egos in check. He's also made some amazing passes and is completely unselfish. He can still D up an opposing PG without problems. Would I take Tim Duncan or KG over Kidd. Of course I'd rather have more size, but given the situation he's a huge asset to the team.

Again, Wade coming in off the bench with CP3 and Williams is a great idea. This depth is what is hurting teams the most. Imagine having to deal with Kobe to start out a game and once you are worn out you then need to deal with Wade. I'm not trying to take anything away from what Wade has done, but he is fresh while opposing players aren't. He gets to have his way with them. Besides the fact that on the 2nd squad he is looked to be a scorer. Kobe hasn't played terrible. He's had off games just like almost everybody on the team. Why don't you complain about how the Spurs bring Manu off the bench? It seems like they won NBA championships like that......

Bosh is better than Amare, especially for the international game. Bosh can play better D and he can hit an outside shot. Amare isn't as good of an outside shooter as Bosh is and he is more of a slasher. I'd take Bosh over Amare any day for the Olympic team. I think we'll see in 2012 that Jerry Colanglo agrees.

The team has played very good, probably even better than most of us have expected so far. How are we going to criticize a team that is exceeding expectations?

[Icecube88]

Anyone think USA will go undefeated?

[dd24]

Anyone think USA will go undefeated?

If they beat Germany they half to in order to win gold.

[Bonafide]

I'm not even sure why you are bringing this up again. Wade should not start. Do you understand anything about lineups? The USA is doing well because of their depth. Not everybody is going to score. Quit basing this on scoring. Like you said there are many intangibles that players have which stats can't capture. Kobe is full of intangibles. Why do you think the rest of the team all of the sudden is playing better defense? Kobe's intensity on defense. They have all said they learned a ton from Kobe on defense. Hasn't Coach K said already that he wanted Kidd on the team for his leadership skills. He's like an assistant coach. He keeps peoples egos in check. He's also made some amazing passes and is completely unselfish. He can still D up an opposing PG without problems. Would I take Tim Duncan or KG over Kidd. Of course I'd rather have more size, but given the situation he's a huge asset to the team.

Again, Wade coming in off the bench with CP3 and Williams is a great idea. This depth is what is hurting teams the most. Imagine having to deal with Kobe to start out a game and once you are worn out you then need to deal with Wade. I'm not trying to take anything away from what Wade has done, but he is fresh while opposing players aren't. He gets to have his way with them. Besides the fact that on the 2nd squad he is looked to be a scorer. Kobe hasn't played terrible. He's had off games just like almost everybody on the team. Why don't you complain about how the Spurs bring Manu off the bench? It seems like they won NBA championships like that......

Bosh is better than Amare, especially for the international game. Bosh can play better D and he can hit an outside shot. Amare isn't as good of an outside shooter as Bosh is and he is more of a slasher. I'd take Bosh over Amare any day for the Olympic team. I think we'll see in 2012 that Jerry Colanglo agrees.

The team has played very good, probably even better than most of us have expected so far. How are we going to criticize a team that is exceeding expectations?

You are arguing against points I didn't make, there was nothing said within my last 3 posts mentioning whether Wade should start or not.

Lebron is better than Kobe at this present moment of time, Kobe's intangibles do not tip the scales enough to his favor in order say he is better than Lebron, Lebrons high PER weighs heavily of significant value. Hypothetically speaking, if you only do 1 or 2 things really well it's possible you can be considered greater than someone who does 10 or 20 things really well, as long as how well you do those 1 or 2 things are of greater value.

So Lebron isn't as well refined in as many areas as Kobe, but he led the league in PER (Hollingers efficiency rating system). Kobe Bryant was a distant 8th, that tips a lot of weight into Lebrons scales far as I'm concerned.That was my main point argument backed by a thorough explanation, and yet you didn't mention Lebron once.



On another note (which you brought up), Manu came of the bench but he averaged over 30 minutes in his playoff carreer, so he played starter status minutes. Wade plays 18.8 minutes a game here, that's 6.2 minutes less than Lebron despite being right up there with him for MVP contention, Cp3 and D-Will are bench players yet even they get 3-4 minutes more than Wade does. Is it not fair to say than an MVP contender deserves more minutes than the bench players? He doesn't have to be a starter, I just wish he was given a little more acknowledgment, 3-4 minutes is all.

[b.jerk]

I wonder what's going to come out four years from now, this is the dirtiest olympics I've ever seen

[Bonafide]

Lebron, Kobe, Wade, or Paul. Who you got in crunch time? I say Wade and here's why:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playof...Performances-1

[dd24]

Lebron, Kobe, Wade, or Paul. Who you got in crunch time? I say Wade and here's why:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playof...Performances-1

Looks like it was Kobe. Wade had a spectacular game. What he did in the first half was incredible. When it came down to it and the game was actually close Kobe's killer instinct took over.

I disagree about the finals performances thing. Wade went to the free throw line way too much in 06. If I went to the free throw line as much as he did I could have put up 20 ppg.

[Bonafide]

"If", that's a big if you got there. How do you intend to get to the foul line that many times? With penetration skills like Wade I suppose, well unfortunately for you, Wade's ability to get to the rim is second to none. The only way to stop Wade is the same as the only way there is to stop Shaq (at his best), foul. Kobe made one nice clutch shot, Wade played a great clutch game from the get go all the way through, take it back a step and you'll see that Wade is clutch every game he plays 24/7. It's funny how you say you disagree with a well respected ESPN analyst and give no reason as to why, is that reason because you are blindly biased by your love for Kobe? I'm not surprised, Kobe has that effect on alot of people. Like Hollinger though I prefer to base my beliefs on solid facts, not blind faith.

[Bonafide]

I distinctly recall reading a plethora of posts/threads from "Kobe Homers" (that's what I'm going to refer the blindly biased Kobe fans by from now on) talking all sort of crappola about how Kobe won the Argentina game because of his hot-shooting in the 1st Quarter... even though he completely disappeared in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th Quarters.

Tonight, however, after Wade carried the team in the 1st (2nd and 3rd Quarters), suddenly "only" the 4th Quarter is important.

Hahahaha...

Not a big deal really... but it does illustrate the hypocritical nature and absolute foolishness on the part of the "Kobe Homers".

[dd24]

"If", that's a big if you got there. How do you intend to get to the foul line that many times? With penetration skills like Wade I suppose, well unfortunately for you, Wade's ability to get to the rim is second to none. The only way to stop Wade is the same as the only way there is to stop Shaq (at his best), foul. Kobe made one nice clutch shot, Wade played a great clutch game from the get go all the way through, take it back a step and you'll see that Wade is clutch every game he plays 24/7. It's funny how you say you disagree with a well respected ESPN analyst and give no reason as to why, is that reason because you are blindly biased by your love for Kobe? I'm not surprised, Kobe has that effect on alot of people. Like Hollinger though I prefer to base my beliefs on solid facts, not blind faith.

I would get to the foul line just like Wade did, by stupid touch fouls that shouldn't have been called. That is the reason he shouldn't be #1 on that list. He didn't earn it. I never said Kobe had one of the greatest finals performances. How is it you assume that is what I said? Kobe isn't on that list either. When it comes down to it if my team is down one and there is only one possesion left in the game I want Jordan to be taking the shot, not Wade. Maybe we should call you a "Wade Homer", because you are biased about him. I love his game and think he's one of the best today. I'm not trying to take his game down a notch. I guess what I don't like the most about this conversation is this is a team game. The team won together. Get over trying to make someone the best player on a team that is full of great players.

[Bonafide]

I would get to the foul line just like Wade did, by stupid touch fouls that shouldn't have been called. That is the reason he shouldn't be #1 on that list. He didn't earn it. I never said Kobe had one of the greatest finals performances. How is it you assume that is what I said? Kobe isn't on that list either. When it comes down to it if my team is down one and there is only one possesion left in the game I want Jordan to be taking the shot, not Wade. Maybe we should call you a "Wade Homer", because you are biased about him. I love his game and think he's one of the best today. I'm not trying to take his game down a notch. I guess what I don't like the most about this conversation is this is a team game. The team won together. Get over trying to make someone the best player on a team that is full of great players.

Stupid touch fouls? He didn't earn it? I assumed what when where? And how did Jordan come into this picture? Lord almighty... I don't know where to start. First of all Wade's strength when he goes to the basket is why he makes absorbing contact and finishing look so easy, he makes hard fouls look softer than they are, Lebron makes it look just as easy (although not as often) but I don't see you giving him so much slack because of it. This ability to plague the opposition with fouls while scoring at will is underrated enough as it is, quite frankly I find it appalling that you can use it as a means to discredit Wade of his brilliance. So I'm biased for seeing it how it is now, then I guess you think referees world wide, stat sheets and John Hollingers's PER system are all biased too, it's a conspiracy to make Wade seem better than he is! Do you realize how foolish you sound. You say you're not trying to take Wades game down a notch but you are, and all that team talk is so cliche. A team is made up of individuals, and throughout the tournament on a consistent basis Lebron and Wade were the best individuals. There ain't no drama about it, that's just being real.

[dd24]

First of all you were the one who posted the link to the greatest finals moments ever. Jordan was mentioned numerous times in that article. You were the one who started the whole thing with the greatest finals moments. So yes I would rather have a few of those people in clutch moments instead of Wade. Jordan is certainly one of them. Yes I disagree with the article.

It is widely believed that the Heat were given their championship in 06 by the refs. That's not just my opinion but the opinion of many. I don't like Dallas at all but they were completely robbed. There were even complaints made to the league offices about how much Wade went to the foul line. I know part of his game is slashing and drawing contact. What I'm saying is that in 06 there were times there was little to no contact and there was still a whistle blown. You must be a huge Miami Heat fan to have overlooked that.

The team concept is certainly not cliche. Those guys couldn't have accomplished what they did without each other. Yes Wade was huge. I've said a million times he had spectacular performances. Kobe hit his fair share of clutch shots. Bosh was amazing off the bench. Howard has his moments. Of course Lebron and Carmello did too. Williams and Paul played their part. Even Prince came off the bench for a few minutes and made the most of them. Everybody contributed. Again, please don't make it seem like this team was all Wade. It's a team of stars that put their egos aside to accomplish the goal of winning gold.

[la bomba]

You should call this thread the "Do you like Wade or not?" thread!

[trc2006]

Well, I don't think you two have to argue over this issue that much.

Comparisons are just for media and for overhyped fans, unless you take them easy...

I don't think you should keep on comparing the two guys, they just won the gold together, and they seem to respect each other and like each other. They were together for the whole time after the final buzzer.

Statistics don't always tell the truth. Every single statistic is valid in is own context, but you cannot absolutely compare statistics from different contexts.

If Lakers would have played 2008 Finals against a team like 2006 Dallas, Kobe would have been on top of that ranking... Wade against 2008 Celtics, simply wouldn't even win a single game.

You can rate a player for Points, rebounds or assists per game during a whole season, during the playoffs, but there is no way you find the formula for THE CLUTCHEST PLAYER EVER.

Fourth quarter, gold medal game, the game on the line, Spain within 2. Who do you give the ball to?
The answer is KOBE. And it was Wade who gave him the ball.
Kobe makes a 4 points play and fouls out one of their best players. And the he put his hands on other 10 consecutives points. With points or assists.
That means that EVERYBODY on the team acknowledged that the best thing to do was giving kobe the ball. He turned every ball into points for his team.
That is being clutch.

Hail to Wade, probably the MVP of the tournament, but Wade himself knows that when the ball is hot, Kobe has coldest hands of them all.

[Bonafide]

I grow weary of your constant misconceptions, I said out of Lebron, Kobe, Wade or Paul, who would you want to take to last shot. Jordan was not on the 2008 Olympic team. On another matter, I didn't say this team was all about Wade. I said teams are made up of individuals and expressed my feeling that Wade, as an individual, doesn't always get the recognition he deserves by everybody. Whether it's Wade's style of play, his humble demeanor, the fact his rivals are more marketable or some other ridiculous reason I can't comprehend, he continues to be doubted of his greatness. All I can do is hope Wade stays healthy and proves to the world that he is easily one of the top 30 players of all time, and arguably one of the top 15. If you somehow draw another misconception from my clearly defined argument, I shall conclude that you are an idiot.