Pope Benedict XVI to resign

[LamarOdom]

I would assume documented proof. The cover up of child sex abuse by the Catholic Church is no secret, no matter how badly you want to turn a blind eye to it. It's been a problem for as long as the institution has been around, it's just gotten more press in modern times.

Like I said, I haven't seen it yet. But I think it's re-airing sometime this week on HBO. You should watch it, try to put the blind faith aside while you do.

I'll look when it airs and try to catch it but it haven't even gained that much exposure now I would assume the catholic church has been through bigger scandals why would this one make him abdicate? it just sounds to far fetched.

[DonDadda59]

Assuming he resigned over a documentary that isn't viral and already aired is complete bias against him. You think they're talking about it there in europe?

It might be that there is more information coming out as a result of the documentary's investigation into the matter. You have to remember that this particular case is just one of many worldwide scandals by the Catholic Church. Ratzinger was right in the middle of many of them (Example). Could be that he's trying to save face (for himself, the church, and the papacy) by stepping down.

You can't seriously believe that he's the first pope to step down in 600 years because his strength is gone. John Paul II was pope when he was old and far more feeble than Ratz, until he took his last breath. Which has been the case for again 600 years. But Ratz is stepping down because he can't bench press as much as he did last week and you buy that?

Guess I have to remember that blind faith and critical thinking are mutually exclusive.

[BrickingStar]

It might be that there is more information coming out as a result of the documentary's investigation into the matter. You have to remember that this particular case is just one of many worldwide scandals by the Catholic Church. Ratzinger was right in the middle of many of them (Example). Could be that he's trying to save face (for himself, the church, and the papacy) by stepping down.

You can't seriously believe that he's the first pope to step down in 600 years because his strength is gone. John Paul II was pope when he was old and far more feeble than Ratz, until he took his last breath. Which has been the case for again 600 years. But Ratz is stepping down because he can't bench press as much as he did last week and you buy that?

Guess I have to remember that blind faith and critical thinking are mutually exclusive.

I'm agnostic if you're trying to categorize me with the bold. The pope is 86.Until recently popes didn't "generally" travel around behind bullet proof glass. Times change. People live longer these days so we now have very many very old people...and popes. These men can no longer hide behind dozens of supporters; there are cameras everywhere and televised speeches expected. Most importantly modern medicine provides a suite of cognitive tests that can identify the early signs of dementia, and give you a heads up when you are still lucid enough to understand the diagnosis or in other words notice the cognitives signes before cognitive decline before being diagnosed with something like Alzheimer's. You act like you're 86 and know what it's like to give much energy at his age. Certainly I don't share your bias or in other words like you said "blind faith" to assume that such a conspiracy is the reason he resigned over human nature.

[DonDadda59]

What'd I tell you?

From a few hours ago:

[INDENT]Pope Benedict resigns: sex abuse survivors hope move eases prosecution
[B]Victims and their advocates

[BrickingStar]

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]What'd I tell you?

From a few hours ago:

[INDENT]Pope Benedict resigns: sex abuse survivors hope move eases prosecution
[B]Victims and their advocates

[LamarOdom]

What exactly does this prove or tell us things we didn't already know?

Exactly what I was going to say, only thing it tells me is that David Clohessy the executive director of Snap is saying....

Clohessy told the Guardian: "Before he became pope his predecessor put him in charge of the abuse crisis. He has read thousands of pages of reports of the abuse cases from across the world. He knows more about clergy sex crimes and cover-ups than anyone else in the church yet he has done precious little to protect children."

This is a guy who totally hates the Pope and why would he know information such as this? this like something only the highest of the highest in the Vatican should know.

No this is just speculations which is something we'll always see when big events such as this happens but this is just reaching, no proof whatsoever.

The pope is a good man and until further proof comes it will still be my beliefs.

[ClutchOver9000]

I know its almost an impossibility but I hope Cardinal Dolan gets chosen as the new pope simply for my personal amusement.

That would be too epic...

[Skywalker]

[mrpuente]

I cant blame the pope for wanting to retire.

If my boss never showed up to work, I wouldnt have any motivation either.

[rufuspaul]

I know its almost an impossibility but I hope Cardinal Dolan gets chosen as the new pope simply for my personal amusement.

That would be too epic...

He's hilarious. I went to Easter mass last year at St. Patrick Cathedral in NYC. He comes across almost as an Irish stereotype. I could definitely see him in a bar swilling Guiness and whiskey, telling off color jokes and cursing like a sailor.

[Jasi]

Funny to see how differently you guys in the US see things.

There is absolutely no doubt here in Italy that BXVI did not abdicate because of whatever "secret report/documentary" you guys are babbling about.
(The alleged "sex scandal" is water under the bridge. Actually Ratzinger has been one of the most active Popes against pedophilia in the Church - which, with all due respect to actual victims and their suffering, remains a statistical nullity).

JPII was in the saddle, despite his illness, until he died... because everyone in the Vatican was with him and he could trust ALL of his cooperators.
This is probably not the case for BXVI; there is a very well-known clash between two factions in the Vatican, one which is faithful to Ratzinger (guided by the president of Italian Episcopes, cardinal Angelo Bagnasco) and one which is not (led by the Vatican State Secretary, cardinal Tarcisio Bertone).

This is the most common line of thought among vaticanists.
I am not saying I agree with it, but it seems reasonable.
Certainly much more than an HBO documentary


As concerns the next Conclave...
If the above interpretation of BXVI's abdication is correct, then it is to be expected that Ratzinger also did it so as to let his "faction" hold the keys to the elections.
(And no, Dolan is not really a strong candidate... no US cardinal really is, understandably).

[Scoooter]

Interesting Jasi. Are you a Catholic?

Also, what does Andrea Bargnagni think about all this?

[Jasi]

Interesting Jasi. Are you a Catholic?

Also, what does Andrea Bargnagni think about all this?

1) Yes.
2) As far as I know he hasn't issued any official statement on the matter, despite the remarkable anticipation from all cardinals and vaticanists. It's spelled Bargnani by the way.

[lakers_forever]

Funny to see how differently you guys in the US see things.

There is absolutely no doubt here in Italy that BXVI did not abdicate because of whatever "secret report/documentary" you guys are babbling about.
(The alleged "sex scandal" is water under the bridge. Actually Ratzinger has been one of the most active Popes against pedophilia in the Church - which, with all due respect to actual victims and their suffering, remains a statistical nullity).

JPII was in the saddle, despite his illness, until he died... because everyone in the Vatican was with him and he could trust ALL of his cooperators.
This is probably not the case for BXVI; there is a very well-known clash between two factions in the Vatican, one which is faithful to Ratzinger (guided by the president of Italian Episcopes, cardinal Angelo Bagnasco) and one which is not (led by the Vatican State Secretary, cardinal Tarcisio Bertone).

This is the most common line of thought among vaticanists.
I am not saying I agree with it, but it seems reasonable.
Certainly much more than an HBO documentary


As concerns the next Conclave...
If the above interpretation of BXVI's abdication is correct, then it is to be expected that Ratzinger also did it so as to let his "faction" hold the keys to the elections.
(And no, Dolan is not really a strong candidate... no US cardinal really is, understandably).

Exactly. It's that old american thinking that they influence everything.
HBO documentary. It does not mean anything to catholics around the world, let alone the Cardinals in the Vatican (some probably don't even know what HBO is).
Of couse I feel sorry for victims of those sick priests (and even one case is already a shame for the Church). But like you said, it's statistical nullity. 99% of priests have never been accused of anything.
Studies by Charol Shakeshaft commissioned by the United States Department of Education show that abuse in schools are 100 times worse than by priests.
Another study (became a book) by non Catholic Penn State Professor Philip Jenkins show that:
Statistically, of all the professions, Christian clergy are least likely to offend. Doctors, Farmers and Teachers are the professions most likely to abuse children