Is Lance Armstrong the biggest cheater in sports of all time?

[Godzuki]

i swear nothing makes me crazier these days than seeing people stick up for Lance Armstrong saying how he never tested positive

and the saddest thing of all is he's such a POS person, and so manipulative while the very people he manipulated the most are still trying to stand by him knowing he told them a massive lie for years. i mean a lie so big it puts most other lies to shame, and acting so venemously innocent for so long. i also think he knew they were going to come out publicly with these accusations and condemnation beforehand where he tried to discredit the organizations to his fans with that crap about how he's not going to fight the accusations anymore because they're just out to get him. its just such calculated manipulation of so many idiots and it kills me they don't get that

[blacknapalm]

here's one example of him being a bully: http://www.bicycling.com/news/pro-cy...nts-down-rider

just as a primer to some of the casual fans...cyclists attack at different times. if the breakaway poses a threat to the overall standings at the top, the maillot jaune (yellow jersey) and his lead domestique will chase that team down. not just them, but much of the peloton will have the same interest.

when they are just looking for stage wins, like in this case, there's no real reason at all really launch a counter attack. simeoni trailed by a whole three hours so this was just lance trying to send a personal message.

you don't actively chase down non-threatening cyclists. it's bad bike etiquette just like it's bad etiquette to chase down or make up time during the very final stage which is more a touring/celebratory stage.

here's accompanying video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taWGQ...ure=plpp_video

you can see the 'zip it' motion at :16. it doesn't take much to put the two together...simeoni testified in one of ferrari's doping trials.

you can also look up the bassons controversy. if you were a whistleblower, you were ostracized and outcast.

i'm not just showing this to present the bully tactics. i also wanted to share how rampant the drug use was and i'm sure there's far better articles than this one, particularly the recent ones.

lance did all he could to protect his brand and i'm sure many in the peloton silently agreed to keep the ones who wanted to come forward away. they're guilty in their own ways too. in the process, careers were destroyed. not just cyclists, but journalists too.

really, i can't believe how little mishaps or complications there were. i guess they all had really good docs and were as organized/clean/cautious as possible.

[DCL]

athletes often make mistakes, and many times we rationalize and forgive.

but with armstrong. man, this guy was such a f--king assho!e and manipulative bastard, he's almost a perfect example of karma.

everyone doped in that sport, so the doping wasn't that outrageous. at least to observers with some common sense.

but armstrong wasn't just a plain doper. he was a backstabber, a manipulator, a bully, a tyrant, a straight up fraud, a calculating criminal, a douchebag, a d!ckhead, and a motherfugging asshole. he stepped on so many people to cash in on his lies. he used his cancer-beating story to betray and steal the respect of his fans. he made himself to be this honorable, honest, and proud all-american good guy hero. but nothing could be further away from the truth. in reality, he's as dark, ugly, and shady as they come. like the priest who gives gospel to mothers and then molests their kids in the back room.

it serves him right that his world is turned upside down.

what's happening to him right now is karma.

[tomtucker]

athletes often make mistakes, and many times we rationalize and forgive.

but with armstrong. man, this guy was such a f--king assho!e and manipulative bastard, he's almost a perfect example of karma.

everyone cheated in that sport, so the cheating wasn't that outrageous. at least to observers with some common sense.

but armstrong wasn't just a plain cheater. he was a backstabber, a manipulator, a bully, a tyrant, a straight up fraud, a douchebag, a d!ckhead, and a motherfugging asshole. he stepped on so many people to cash in on his lies. he used his cancer-beating story to betray and steal the respect of his fans. he made himself to be this honorable, honest, and proud all-american hero. but that was just his fake brand. in reality, he's as dark an shady as they come. like the priest who gives gospel to mothers and then molests their kids in the back room.

lance armstrong was a huge piece of sh!t for a human.

what's happening to him right now is karma.

i refuse to belive that about him........

[ILLsmak]

Lance Armstrong and Tiger Woods are good examples for REAL LIFE. Obviously they did wrong, but it's important to understand nearly everyone at the top is imperfect and the moment you slip they throw you under the bus.

It's like LeBron. You don't think dude is on PEDs? But his body is build for PEDs. Other people are on them, but his natural athleticism makes him benefit more from it. Same with Lance. Can't hate him. Kinda think he's a lying bitch... but other than that...

-Smak

[Clifton]

The drugs didn't push the pedals. Lance + drugs beat Field + drugs 7 times.

I'm surprised that doping is even frowned upon still. It's taken for granted, I think, among most people, that to be a top-tier professional athlete is to sacrifice your life for the sport. Ask any retired NFL star what it's like to get up in the morning. We the public expect these guys to be one-dimensional machines who devote themselves to excellence. We don't want them to be healthy and well-rounded, we want them to win.

And then we feign outrage when one of them is scapegoated for actually doing that.

If Lance had replaced his body with a some kind of high-powered robot, or slipped a jet propulsion engine onto his bike without anyone knowing and won that way, then yes he'd be a whole new level of cheater. But performance-enhancing drugs? He still had to perform. He still did perform. He can't have the top tier to himself, therefore. There have to be greater cheaters out there.

[LJJ]

The drugs didn't push the pedals. Lance + drugs beat Field + drugs 7 times.

I'm surprised that doping is even frowned upon still. It's taken for granted, I think, among most people, that to be a top-tier professional athlete is to sacrifice your life for the sport. Ask any retired NFL star what it's like to get up in the morning. We the public expect these guys to be one-dimensional machines who devote themselves to excellence. We don't want them to be healthy and well-rounded, we want them to win.

And then we feign outrage when one of them is scapegoated for actually doing that.

If Lance had replaced his body with a some kind of high-powered robot, or slipped a jet propulsion engine onto his bike without anyone knowing and won that way, then yes he'd be a whole new level of cheater. But performance-enhancing drugs? He still had to perform. He still did perform. He can't have the top tier to himself, therefore. There have to be greater cheaters out there.

The key factor here is that he wasn't just another PED user. He was the single most vocal and most vehement anti-doping spokesperson in his sport, while during this time also being the ringleader behind the most elaborate doping program in the sport.


He wasn't just a known anti-doping spokesperson among the pros, he was the anti doping guy. Armstrong would publicly chastise any previous doping sinner, even after they had served the sport by coming clean literally and figuratively. He presented "once a cheater; always a cheater" as being one of his core norms. He would instruct his teammates and use his goodwill in the peloton to ensure previous doping abusers could not win races or catch any of the limelight, often at the expense of his own or his team's results. That's how vicious and hateful he was towards anyone who had used PEDs once upon a time; he would do everything in his power to actively ruin their professional career even after they had already received their official legal punishment.

And then as a PED user, he wasn't just another user. It's true that doping users aren't exactly a rarity in the sport (or any sport really), but few of them coordinated the structural use of PEDs for their whole professional team. Few of coerced their teammates to used them, and threatened to severely damage their careers if they wouldn't comply. There is even evidence that Armstrong has given massive bribes to the UCI to make suspicious tests and more audacious testing go away. No one else did these things. It's like a massive conspiracy uncovered.

Those are the reasons he would be "the greatest cheater" of all time. And really, I can't think of anyone who is quite on his level. Even the large scale national doping practices of East Germany, Russia and the US in the late seventies and the eighties don't really hold a candle to this. At least they didn't actively play the anti-doping saint and cash in on their status the way Armstrong did.

[tomtucker]

The key factor here is that he wasn't just another PED user. He was the single most vocal and most vehement anti-doping spokesperson in his sport, while during this time also being the ringleader behind the most elaborate doping program in the sport.


He wasn't just a known anti-doping spokesperson among the pros, he was the anti doping guy. Armstrong would publicly chastise any previous doping sinner, even after they had served the sport by coming clean literally and figuratively. He presented "once a cheater; always a cheater" as being one of his core norms. He would instruct his teammates and use his goodwill in the peloton to ensure previous doping abusers could not win races or catch any of the limelight, often at the expense of his own or his team's results. That's how vicious and hateful he was towards anyone who had used PEDs once upon a time; he would do everything in his power to actively ruin their professional career even after they had already received their official legal punishment.

And then as a PED user, he wasn't just another user. It's true that doping users aren't exactly a rarity in the sport (or any sport really), but few of them coordinated the structural use of PEDs for their whole professional team. Few of coerced their teammates to used them, and threatened to severely damage their careers if they wouldn't comply. There is even evidence that Armstrong has given massive bribes to the UCI to make suspicious tests and more audacious testing go away. No one else did these things. It's like a massive conspiracy uncovered.

Those are the reasons he would be "the greatest cheater" of all time. And really, I can't think of anyone who is quite on his level. Even the large scale national doping practices of East Germany, Russia and the US in the late seventies and the eighties don't really hold a candle to this. At least they didn't actively play the anti-doping saint and cash in on their status the way Armstrong did.

there is no evidence.......

[LJJ]

there is no evidence.......

Yes there is. It's no secret Armstrong donated substantial amounts of money and equipment to the UCI. There is also evidence of dodgy testing in regards to Armstrong's blood and urine samples. You can either connect the dots or continue living in fantasy land, given all the rest that has come to light.

And either way, that's only a minor detail in this affair. It couldn't be proven legally (which doesn't mean there isn't evidence), but everything else has been proven legally to be true.

[niko]

The best thing is they can't name alternate winners because in most years they'd need to go to 4th or 5th place to find a person who hasn't been caught cheating.

[Punpun]

The best thing is they can't name alternate winners because in most years they'd need to go to 4th or 5th place to find a person who hasn't been caught cheating.

To the 23rd place actually for one of the year.

[Godzuki]

The drugs didn't push the pedals. Lance + drugs beat Field + drugs 7 times.

I'm surprised that doping is even frowned upon still. It's taken for granted, I think, among most people, that to be a top-tier professional athlete is to sacrifice your life for the sport. Ask any retired NFL star what it's like to get up in the morning. We the public expect these guys to be one-dimensional machines who devote themselves to excellence. We don't want them to be healthy and well-rounded, we want them to win.

And then we feign outrage when one of them is scapegoated for actually doing that.

If Lance had replaced his body with a some kind of high-powered robot, or slipped a jet propulsion engine onto his bike without anyone knowing and won that way, then yes he'd be a whole new level of cheater. But performance-enhancing drugs? He still had to perform. He still did perform. He can't have the top tier to himself, therefore. There have to be greater cheaters out there.

the big issue i have with so many people NOW using this excuse is most weren't using it when they thought Lance was clean. they were saying how horrible human beings are that cheat in sports, and how Lance is the shining beacon of super athlete role model that beat cancer that everyone should emulate. i have major problems with the hypocrisy of so many of the Lance supporters, and the excuses they're making for him now, its just so hard to read

[blacknapalm]

five time TDF champ indurain says he believes in lance's innocence. wow, i know they're friends but i always had my slight suspicions he had doped himself. so in that way, it makes sense he would come to defend him. indurain is a guy who middled in the GC, even in the lower ranks for a while and quickly shot up as a contender....he might have had the inside track for a while before he got older and the rest of the peloton joined in. add in the fact that many spanish teams were implicated in doping at that time...and well, his comments don't exactly quell my suspicions.

[red1]

I haven't read up on the recent accusations but I will say that if lance has been doping all this time, he is a piece of shit

[gigantes]

lance beat the system at its own game, over and over for 7+ years.


now the cycling establishment is doing everything in their power to eradicate his name and his record, as if they knew the slightest thing about ethics and drug-free athletics... going back to the very founding of the sport, even.





laughter is some powerful medicine!


and it's not so much that i'm an armstrong fan as much as i enjoy watching hypocrites stew in their own juices for all to behold.