"How overrated is Kyrie Irving???" -PleezeBelieve

[Punpun]

I'm just saying that it's the only reason Tyreke had more assists per game, since you keep bringing that up.

No, I keep bringing that up because the guy I'm "arguing" with said Tyreke had less AST than Irving. When it's wrong.

If Kyrie could play as much minutes as Tyreke, he would have. He didn't, then he can't.

[LBJMVP]

No, I keep bringing that up because the guy I'm "arguing" with said Tyreke had less AST than Irving. When it's wrong.

If Kyrie could play as much minutes as Tyreke, he would have. He didn't, then he can't.

whatever if you gonna bitch about .3 assist per game when tyreke played more than half a quarter more than oh well.

you also said sacremento had a better winning percentage during tyrekes rookie year... you were wrong.

pretty sad considering cleveland 2nd best player was half the year


and when your 3rd best player is antawn jamison haha

[dunksby]

Kyrie couldn't handle more minutes, he even got injured. Putting Tyreke's durability as a minus is preposterous.

Actually I give Kyrie more credit for doing this in a condensed season with such intense schedule.

[RedBlackAttack]

So I'm trolling because I compared him to Tyreke?

Tyreke had a better year and you had to bring up "advanced" statistics.

Comparing him to Mayo and Tyreke is pretty accurate so don't get mad. You want me to start comparing him to CP3?

I can't tell if you are trolling or just stupid, but let's go with "stupid" for now... For you to object to advanced statistics being brought into the conversation is pretty much your admission that you have no argument. They have become a part of today's game and can be as telling as the most basic, caveman stats.

His per game averages are one thing...

30.5 minutes
18.5 points (47% FG, 87% FT, 40% 3PT)
5.4 assists
4 rebounds
1.1 steals

There aren't too many guards in this league who average over 18 points on 47/87/40 or better.


But, look further...

Per 36:

21.8 points (47%, 87%, 40%)
6.4 assists
4.4 rebounds
1.2 steals

And, rookies of the past like Tyreke and whoever else would not have been playing many more (if any) minutes than Kyrie when you account for the condensed season.


His usage rate of 28.7% was the 9th highest of any rookie ever. Of rookies who had that usage rate or higher, only one had a higher PER or TS%... Michael Jordan.

Kyrie's PER of 21.4 is the third highest for a rookie guard in NBA history. The only guards in NBA history with a higher PER their rookie years were Michael Jordan and Chris Paul.


To sum up, he may or may not be on an all-time great level when his career comes to a close, but there is no denying the greatness that he played with as a 19-year-old rookie in the NBA.

[RedBlackAttack]

Kyrie couldn't handle more minutes, he even got injured. Putting Tyreke's durability as a minus is preposterous.

Totally ridiculous to expect Kyrie as a rookie or any other player who was a rookie during this past season to play the same kind of minutes as a guy who was a rookie during a regular 82 game season.

Forget rookies... Stars like LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Derrick Rose, etc. all played the lowest MPG of their careers during this past season. It isn't a coincidence.

[Is He Ill]

No, I keep bringing that up because the guy I'm "arguing" with said Tyreke had less AST than Irving. When it's wrong.

If Kyrie could play as much minutes as Tyreke, he would have. He didn't, then he can't.

Anyway, this is just getting into a debate whether Tyreke or Kyrie had a better rookie season. The thread is about PleezeBelieve saying Kyrie is overrated coming out of college and him claiming he is never incorrect. Kyrie is a phenomenal shooter and playmaker, he proved that this past season. There doesn't seem to be anything overrated about him. He looks like he has what it takes to be an elite player.

[9erempiree]

this is true.

You cannot knock Tyreke for playing more minutes because I can say Kyrie isn't tough enough or have the stamina to play those minutes.

Also, it's no guarantee that a player keeps his averages the same if he played more minutes.

[Punpun]

Totally ridiculous to expect Kyrie as a rookie or any other player who was a rookie during this past season to play the same kind of minutes as a guy who was a rookie during a regular 82 game season.

So ? What is ridiculous is acting like playing 37 minutes is actually a knock on your stats.

@Lbj, I never said "you also said sacremento had a better winning percentage during tyrekes rookie year... you were wrong.". **** off with your bullshit.

Tyreke is better almost everywhere while playing 37 freaking minutes. With a .45 FG%. That's better than Kyrie. Not a knock on Kyrie on any ways though.

[RedBlackAttack]

So ? What is ridiculous is acting like playing 37 minutes is actually a knock on your stats.

@Lbj, I never said "you also said sacremento had a better winning percentage during tyrekes rookie year... you were wrong.". **** off with your bullshit.

Didn't say it was a knock... Just said he wouldn't have played 37 MPG as a rookie during this past season. In fact, Tyreke himself only averaged 34.3 MPG during this past season and it was his third year... A guy that has been around and gone through the rigors of an NBA season twice before.

Just sayin'.

Tyreke is better almost everywhere while playing 37 freaking minutes. With a .45 FG%. That's better than Kyrie. Not a knock on Kyrie on any ways though.

I can tell you this... Even if you just look at the basic statistics and compare both players as they played this past season (it is unfair to compare a normal season to this past season), Kyrie was better everywhere... And, he is a rookie and Evans is in his third year.

I mean, who would you rather have?

[Punpun]

Please, let's stick to comparing facts. Not "if". "If" have no bearing on what they actually accomplished. And Tyreke just accomplished more as a rookie. That's all.

[9erempiree]

As I said earlier...same old tired song and dance.

Cavs fans using advanced statistics....this is Lebron 2.0 all over again.

[NuggetsFan]

Totally ridiculous to expect Kyrie as a rookie or any other player who was a rookie during this past season to play the same kind of minutes as a guy who was a rookie during a regular 82 game season.

I don't know If I'm missing something but didn't everybody else play their usual starting minutes this year? Faried would played the same role in an 82 game season or a 54 game one, same with guy's like Brooks or whatever other rookie including Irving IMO

I don't think it's fair to knock Irving for only playing 30 minutes a night. I think using the shorted season is a copout tho and clearly shows bias when comparing it vs other players. If your going to go that route Kyrie only played 51 games his rookie year. OJ and Reke played 82 and 72, Chris Paul played 78.

Iring wouldn't have played 38 minutes a night if was a 82 game year IMO. Pure speculation obviously but what happened happened so w.e.

Am I the only person who hates per 36 numbers? To act like guy's won't get tired or their numbers are going to directly translate is kinda ridiculous in something as unpredictable as sports. Plus what's the accomplishment in knowing what you woulda done in minutes you never played? Not like that shit helps win games. Atleast other statistics show what you've done during a game to help impact, not what if's .. not directed at people using it for Irving. Just in general

[RedBlackAttack]

Please, let's stick to comparing facts. Not "if". "If" have no bearing on what they actually accomplished. And Tyreke just accomplished more as a rookie. That's all.

No "if" in comparing how they each played this past season's ridiculous 66-game slate in four months. There wasn't a single statistic that favored Evans, from basic to advanced.

[Punpun]

Nah, PER36 is pretty insulting to what the players actually did. It's "Look what youcould do if you played 36 minutes you lazy ****".

[RedBlackAttack]

I don't know If I'm missing something but didn't everybody else play their usual starting minutes this year?

Ah, no? The guy we are talking about, Tyreke Evans... career low minutes.

LeBron James... career low minutes.
Dwyane Wade... career low minutes.
Derrick Rose... career low minutes.
John Wall... career low minutes.
Blake Griffin... career low minutes.
Dirk Nowitzki... lowest minutes since rookie year.
Steve Nash... lowest minutes in over a decade.
Carmelo Anthony... career low minutes.
Danny Granger... lowest minutes since rookie year.
Kevin Durant... minutes down.

There were a couple of guys who are considered the best player on their respective teams who played even or upped their minutes, but for the most part, minutes across the board were down.