Lakers are now 1-11 when Kobe scores 30 or more points

[Pointguard]

Prime Vince Carter and Chris Bosh are easily better than current Nash and Gasol... and if were counting right now ? Yes, better than anybody not named Kobe and Howard and even between them I would debate it.

You're either lying or crazy if you think watching Toronto for 19 years would lead you to call Gasol or Nash awful. No way are Carter or Bosh best moments in the same breadth of Nash or Gasol's - not even remotely close. We know what Nash and Gasol can do on a big stage and perhaps can still do them. We know they can turn a series around or even be a main reason why they win it all. We can't tell now, because the team is in disarray. Gasol isn't going to shine being the second big man behind DH while Kobe, is the main ball handler and he's averaging about three assist per game and taking more shots than DH and Gasol combined a lot of the time. Bosh can't thrive with both Lebron and Wade both averaging over 5 assist per game while being the featured big man.

[Legends66NBA7]

You're either lying or crazy if you think watching Toronto for 19 years would lead you to call Gasol or Nash awful. No way are Carter or Bosh best moments in the same breadth of Nash or Gasol's - not even remotely close. We know what Nash and Gasol can do on a big stage and perhaps can still do them. We know they can turn a series around or even be a main reason why they win it all. We can't tell now, because the team is in disarray. Gasol isn't going to shine being the second big man behind DH while Kobe, is the main ball handler and he's averaging about three assist per game and taking more shots than DH and Gasol combined a lot of the time. Bosh can't thrive with both Lebron and Wade both averaging over 5 assist per game while being the featured big man.

First of all, it's 18 years. 1995-present.

Second, I'm talking about Nash and Gasol RIGHT NOW are awful from what we've seen. I've watched the Lakers all year (Nash I'll excuse, because of the injury but he certainly wasn't playing good). I thought you were talking about these current Lakers as they are now vs the Primes of Carter and Bosh. They aren't better if that's what your implying and yes I would take prime Carter over prime Gasol.

And what was Gasol's record before joining the Lakers in the playoffs ? Almost no difference from Chris Bosh's record with the Raptors. Bosh on the Lakers in 09 and 10 would probably have lead to chips too.

[joeyjoejoe]

I think a big part of the problem is having so many stars on a team with kobe shooting as much as ever and others llike pau and dwight shootin a lot less so these big stars are probably unhappy and then kobe throws them under the bus

[Figlo]

Kobe = MOAT, sorry to say kobestans.

But if he can't lead this superstar team to the playoffs or even above six seed it just goes to show how overrated as a leader and defender he really is.

[chazzy]

That "The Lakers are 1 and whatever when Kobe scores 30 or more" stat is going to be even more meaningless if Kobe makes one more garbage time bucket in the final two minutes with his team down double digits. But I'm sure some moron will start a new thread about it.

Congrats swi7ch, you have won the KG215 "some moron" award!

[Nash]

OMG OMG OP is on to something. D'Antoni should just sit Kobe when he had 29 and the Lakers would have come back from an 18 point deficit!!

[irondarts]

The Lakers are 1-11 in those games because the team sucks ass. This is a stupid stat and it doesn't mean anything, other than the Lakers would've gotten blown out by a larger margin if Kobe didn't score 30.

[IamRAMBO24]

OP has a legit point.

Many ball hoggers such as Iverson, Chamberlain, and yes, even Jordan, have failed to consistently win based on scoring.

It is when they utilize their energies for other important aspects of the game (defense, assist, smart basketball, blocks, steals, etc.) they were able to integrate their teammates in the game and build team chemistry.

Shot chucking hurts team chemistry, so it is not too far fetch to hypothesize Kobe's absymal win record is a result of his shot chucking ways.

It takes a team to win a game, not one person, and if that person is too selfish to get the team involve and they end up with a losing record, then it is their selfishness that is to be blame, not the team.

This is a tough concept to grasp because individual stats look good for the person who is chucking up the shots. If you take 30+ shots and make 40% of it, all the fanboys will see 30+ and jizz in their pants and say you are doing your job, but what they fail to realize is those shots don't mean jack if other guys are not involved and that team play is much more important than individual numbers, and especially if those shots mean the defense is going to get worst, then the overall evaluation of a player should also take that into consideration.

Scoring is only 1 small aspect of the game; defense, assist, hustle, team chemistry, etc. makes up over 90% of the qualities of a player that takes to win.

[White Mamba]

OP has a legit point.

Many ball hoggers such as Iverson, Chamberlain, and yes, even Jordan, have failed to consistently win based on scoring.

It is when they utilize their energies for other important aspects of the game (defense, assist, smart basketball, blocks, steals, etc.) they were able to integrate their teammates in the game and build team chemistry.

Shot chucking hurts team chemistry, so it is not too far fetch to hypothesize Kobe's absymal win record is a result of his shot chucking ways.

It takes a team to win a game, not one person, and if that person is too selfish to get the team involve and they end up with a losing record, then it is their selfishness that is to be blame, not the team.

This is a tough concept to grasp because individual stats look good for the person who is chucking up the shots. If you take 30+ shots and make 40% of it, all the fanboys will see 30+ and jizz in their pants and say you are doing your job, but what they fail to realize is those shots don't mean jack if other guys are not involved and that team play is much more important than individual numbers, and especially if those shots mean the defense is going to get worst, then the overall evaluation of a player should also take that into consideration.

Scoring is only 1 small aspect of the game; defense, assist, hustle, team chemistry, etc. makes up over 90% of the qualities of a player that takes to win.

according to the bold part you didn't watch most of Lakers games this season.

[9erempiree]

OP has a legit point.

Many ball hoggers such as Iverson, Chamberlain, and yes, even Jordan, have failed to consistently win based on scoring.

It is when they utilize their energies for other important aspects of the game (defense, assist, smart basketball, blocks, steals, etc.) they were able to integrate their teammates in the game and build team chemistry.

Shot chucking hurts team chemistry, so it is not too far fetch to hypothesize Kobe's absymal win record is a result of his shot chucking ways.

It takes a team to win a game, not one person, and if that person is too selfish to get the team involve and they end up with a losing record, then it is their selfishness that is to be blame, not the team.

This is a tough concept to grasp because individual stats look good for the person who is chucking up the shots. If you take 30+ shots and make 40% of it, all the fanboys will see 30+ and jizz in their pants and say you are doing your job, but what they fail to realize is those shots don't mean jack if other guys are not involved and that team play is much more important than individual numbers, and especially if those shots mean the defense is going to get worst, then the overall evaluation of a player should also take that into consideration.

Scoring is only 1 small aspect of the game; defense, assist, hustle, team chemistry, etc. makes up over 90% of the qualities of a player that takes to win.

History also shows that guys like Wilt, MJ and Kobe won multiple rings by leading the team in scoring.

Also, you act like Kobe is taking a ridiculous amount of shots compared to MJ and Wilt that would hinder the team.

Kobe's FGA this year is basically the same and consistent as the years he went back to back.

The only difference, his teammates are playing like crap. It's not like he's averaging 40 or 50 points a game where his teammates can't get involved.

[IamRAMBO24]

according to the bold part you didn't watch most of Lakers games this season.

Saw all of it.

Watch Jordan, Stockton, Kidd, Malone, etc. and understand what smart basketball is all about.

After all these years in the game, Kobe is still dumb as f*ck.

[White Mamba]

Kobe = MOAT, sorry to say kobestans.

But if he can't lead this superstar team to the playoffs or even above six seed it just goes to show how overrated as a leader and defender he really is.

Which SG isn't overrated defender after 17 seasons?

3 of the first 7 players of this team are out right now and not playing, only superstar playing with Kobe right now is D12 who isn't close to 100%.

[White Mamba]

Saw all of it.

Watch Jordan, Stockton, Kidd, Malone, etc. and understand what smart basketball is all about.

After all these years in the game, Kobe is still dumb as f*ck.

Ok I'm going to watch them right now

[Pointguard]

First of all, it's 18 years. 1995-present.

So one year is going to make a difference. That one more year convinced you that watching Toronto wasn't an awful experience? Or that Gasol and Nash are awful?

Second, I'm talking about Nash and Gasol RIGHT NOW are awful from what we've seen. I've watched the Lakers all year (Nash I'll excuse, because of the injury but he certainly wasn't playing good). I thought you were talking about these current Lakers as they are now vs the Primes of Carter and Bosh. They aren't better if that's what your implying and yes I would take prime Carter over prime Gasol.

And what was Gasol's record before joining the Lakers in the playoffs ? Almost no difference from Chris Bosh's record with the Raptors. Bosh on the Lakers in 09 and 10 would probably have lead to chips too.

Bosh isn't triangle friendly. He isn't an inside anchor on defense or offense. Doesn't block a lot of shots or get a lot of assist. The guy I responded to said Kobe teammates were awful and they are three HOFer's on teams they were largely responsible for being an integral piece on excellent teams. Toronto was never an excellent team and VC and Bosh may very well not make it in the HOF (I hope they both do tho). Miami would take Gasol for Bosh in a minute right now. Bosh doesn't even claim a spot near the rim half the time. Wade and Lebron often block more shots than him and take more shots near the rim. Lebron out rebounds him way too much. He's a rouge roaming power forward/center on a team that needs a post player.

[IamRAMBO24]

History also shows that guys like Wilt, MJ and Kobe won multiple rings by leading the team in scoring.

Also, you act like Kobe is taking a ridiculous amount of shots compared to MJ and Wilt that would hinder the team.

Kobe's FGA this year is basically the same and consistent as the years he went back to back.

The only difference, his teammates are playing like crap. It's not like he's averaging 40 or 50 points a game where his teammates can't get involved.

My argument is Kobe does not have the essential elements of being a leader.

Even after Shaq left, the reigns were given to Fisher.

Kobe just doesn't have it in him and cannot be compared to the greats who have lead their team to a ring as the leader.