Lebron+wade= 1, Jordan+pippen=6, magic+kareem=5, Kobe+pau= 2

[Money 23]

Gasol was giving production comparable to/better than Pippen in the '09/'10 postseasons, and his impact went beyond even that due to his skill level offensively and length defensively. OP is an idiot.

Let's not forget the offensive versatility of Odom, comparable to Pippen (even off the bench) and defensive impact, that while not near as great as Pippen certainly provided much for that team (Ariza in '09 and Artest in '10) ... the Lakers were lucky the Celtics were injured in 2009. That would've been their biggest test. Their playoff opponents weren't all that special. The Nuggets were decent.

[TheBigVeto]

wade = top 25-30 all time
pippen = top 20-25 all time
kareem = arguable goat
pau = top 90-100 all time


pau:

averaged 19ppg
0-12 playoff rec as 1st option
averaged only 9 rebounds as a 7 footer
4 reserve allstar games
2 all nba third teams


is currently averaging 13/8/3 on 45%fg's as a 7 foot center/power forward


as for the other 3 guys

- dwyane wade

24/5/6 career average
7 all nba teams (2 first teams)
3 all defensive teams
finals mvp
allstar mvp
9 time starting allstar


- scottie pippen


20/7/6 average from 1990-1998
16/6/5 average career
7 all nba teams (3 first teams)
10 all defensive teams ( 8 first team )
allstar mvp
7 time allstar (starting some games )



kareem abdul jabbar


24/11/3 career
15 all nba teams (10 first teams )
11 all defensive teams ( 5 first teams )
7 time mvp
2 time finals mvp
19 time allstar ( started most )




3 hall of fame legends

1 boarderline allstar for half his career. a nobody for the other half


this is why i don't care that kobe had shaq for his first 3 rings... his 3 straight finals, back 2 back titles/finals mvps with a guy like pau gasol is something nobody else has ever done in nba history

hakeem did it once ( then won in 95 with a legend )

walton did it once

barry did it once

dirk did it once ( but lately its been obvious tyson chandler as a defensive anchor was the real reason the mavs were dominant )

duncan did it once in 2003

only these guys had comparable running mates for a single title

every other big name in nba history to lead a team to a championship did it with a legendary side kick

kobe did it with a bum................TWICE

[Vertical-24]

Naw, Game 5 was his own fault. Chemistry killer in that game. He knew he was facing a old senile weak opponent and tried to do too much.

You know you're reaching with that one.

And I don't understand OP's Gasol bashing. He was great in both runs and if not for his showing up in 2010, i'm not so sure we take the title at all. I'm just thankful we won. Do I believe Gasol was robbed of FMVP? No, I think it was rightfully given to Kobe but that doesn't mean Pau wasn't an integral part of us winning the title. Bashing Pau to prop up Kobe is ridiculous. Just be happy WE WON. Its a team effort, who cares who had the "least" help.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

He should have made it at least 3 different times, so you can call him all-star caliber.

He was a triple-double waiting to happen and copped a 6th Man of the Year award. It was a luxury for Kobe to have that kind of bench support.

The attempt to sell Kobe as this guy who carry a team to titles by himself falls short when you see what happened in the years immediately following Shaq's depature.

Please list the years Odom should have made the all star team and who he should have replaced on said team.

He also has 12 triple doubles over the course of his 14 year career. That's a lot of waiting.

[alleykat]

this is why i don't care that kobe had shaq for his first 3 rings... his 3 straight finals, back 2 back titles/finals mvps with a guy like pau gasol is something nobody else has ever done in nba history

u do care, otherwise u wouldn't be trying to justify anything....

anyways pau gasol is an all-star and maybe a hall of fame ballot. one of the best power forwards of the decade. why try and discredit him? does it make kobe look any better?

phil jackson was trash and overrated too then huh?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Kobe + Pau + Bynum = 2

Stop excluding Bynum, the center with best post-up game in NBA.

Most TWIN TOWER DOMINANT 7 pts a game OF ALL TIME!

[j3lademaster]

This is taken way out of context. I get into debates about how Kobe won so many titles with Gasoft who wouldn't even be a top 5 c in the 80's or 90's all the time... with the only issue of that logic being... Gasol didn't play in the 80's/90's. Kareem went up against Moses Malone, Jordan didn't even have the luxury of a big when it was a standard to have at least an all-star big if you even wanted to compete, Wade is not the "top 25-30 all time" Wade anymore.

Gasol outplayed Dwight in the finals straight up. If Gasol wasn't the best c in the league in those championship years then who was? Dwight, who 80% of the laker fan base says is the cancer and root of the problems (along with the coach) of the Lakers this year? Even if you say Dwight, Gasol is 2nd those years, and again: he outplayed Dwight straight up in those finals.

Kobe had one of the top pf's (and top 2 c when he played that position) AVAILABLE during those championship runs. He can't have a Kareem, Drobb, Hakeem, etc. or anything close, but he didn't have to play against that quality of big man either(before 3 second rule where bigs can camp and average 4 blocks/game, too), or anything close.

And with Bynum healthy Lakers had the best rim protection in the league. I mean Lakers frontcourt was massive. Not trying to say he was Bill Russell, but who in the league had better? Lakers, though not historically stacked, was as stacked or more than some of those bulls teams compared to the rest of the league.

I actually rank Kobe 7th/8th all-time before the haters start coming after me.

[kennethgriffin]

Most TWIN TOWER DOMINANT 7 pts a game OF ALL TIME!

beat me to it




bynums epic 6ppg average in finals is legendary

[Yao Ming's Foot]

This is taken way out of context. I get into debates about how Kobe won so many titles with Gasoft who wouldn't even be a top 5 c in the 80's or 90's all the time... with the only issue of that logic being... Gasol didn't play in the 80's/90's. Kareem went up against Moses Malone, Jordan didn't even have the luxury of a big when it was a standard to have at least an all-star big if you even wanted to compete, Wade is not the "top 25-30 all time" Wade anymore.

Gasol outplayed Dwight in the finals straight up. If Gasol wasn't the best c in the league in those championship years then who was? Dwight, who 80% of the laker fan base says is the cancer and root of the problems (along with the coach) of the Lakers this year? Even if you say Dwight, Gasol is 2nd those years, and again: he outplayed Dwight straight up in those finals.

Dwight and Garnett were both better than Pau Gasol. They were DPOY and MVP candidates. Current Dwight has as much relevance to 2009 Dwight as current Pau has to 2009 Pau.

Kobe had one of the top pf's (and top 2 c when he played that position) AVAILABLE during those championship runs. He can't have a Kareem, Drobb, Hakeem, etc. or anything close, but he didn't have to play against that quality of big man either(before 3 second rule where bigs can camp and average 4 blocks/game, too), or anything close.

Dwight Howard and Kevin Garnett are hall of fame level post players.

And with Bynum healthy Lakers had the best rim protection in the league. I mean Lakers frontcourt was massive. Not trying to say he was Bill Russell, but who in the league had better? Lakers, though not historically stacked, was as stacked or more than some of those bulls teams compared to the rest of the league.

Bynum wasn't healthy for either title run. What team was more stacked? The Celtics. Their bigs were just as good as the Lakers leaving Kobe to will his team to victory over Ray Allen, Rondo and Paul Pierce while having some of the worst backcourt support in the entire league.

I actually rank Kobe 7th/8th all-time before the haters start coming after me.

Irrelevant

[j3lademaster]

Dwight and Garnett were both better than Pau Gasol. They were DPOY and MVP candidates. Current Dwight has as much relevance to 2009 Dwight as current Pau has to 2009 Pau.



Dwight Howard and Kevin Garnett are hall of fame level post players.



Bynum wasn't healthy for either title run. What team was more stacked? The Celtics. Their bigs were just as good as the Lakers leaving Kobe to will his team to victory over Ray Allen, Rondo and Paul Pierce while having some of the worst backcourt support in the entire league.



Irrelevant

Who during the Lakers Kobe/Gasol 2peat weren't nearly the level of players as Kareem, Hakeem, Moses, Drobb, Ewing, etc. Thanks for proving my point

[HelterSkelter]

so, just to promote Kobe.. you suddenly rank Wade top 25-30 all-time?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Who during the Lakers Kobe/Gasol 2peat weren't nearly the level of players as Kareem, Hakeem, Moses, Drobb, Ewing, etc. Thanks for proving my point

2009 Dwight Howard is right up there with anybody on that list. I don't know who you think you are fooling with that mantra that Pau outplayed him. Pau on the Magic are first round fodder and he doesn't even come close to what prime healthy Howard represents defensively. And nice try trying to sneak Patrick Ewing among some of the greatest of all time.

[schism206]

Pau's better then top 90. Name 90 players better then him before you make that statement.

Its funny you say all this and conveniently leave out that Kobe won 3 playing with an arguable top 5, definitely top 10 player of all-time at his peak which was a top 1-5 peak of all-time. So if he overachieved by winning 2 with a top 90 player of all-time, isn't that kinda irrelevant because he underachieved by winning only 3 with one of the greatest players of all-time?

And statements like this are very misleading. Wade wasn't at a top 25-30 all-time level last year when Lebron won with him. Pippen was definitely not at a top 20-25 (arguably not a top 20-25 player anyway) all-time level for all of those titles. Kareem was a shell of himself for at least 3 of those titles with Magic, in fact Pau in those 2 titles was probably better then Kareem was for his last 2 titles.

Shaq was at his absolute peak for those 3 titles. In fact, you can easily argue that out of Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Hakeem, and Lebron, only Kobe played with as great of a player as peak Shaq.

[knicksman]

pau actually is a mvp caliber type of player. Remember at the start of 2010-11 season when he was carrying the lakers while kobe was injured. But kobe doesnt want to get exposed as one of the luckiest players to play this game so he shotjacked left and right and then they started losing. After that, pau lost his passion and so kobe also started losing.

[Breezy]

To the op:

You're clearly a bright guy. You have an opinion and you have the wit to carefully place the info relevant to the argument in a way that highlights what you're trying to say. You certainly have a lot more insight that some of these other Kobe maniacs that start topics like... "So Kobe is clearly the best passer of all time, DISCUSS!!" Or "Kobe was Robbed of the MVP his rookie year" so I hope you'll take this as constructive criticism when I say that you're a one trick pony.

When ever I see a topic you've created I don't even have to look to see what it's about, If there is a topic even remotely referencing Kobe or lebron I know you'll be there lobbing grenades at the other side. You know who feels the need to constantly defend a position or insert it where it doesn't belong? People who know their critics are right. Go ahead test me call a tall guy short and see what happens. He'll just laugh and keep walking. Next call a short guy short and see how freaks out.

BRANCH THE **** OUT!!!!!

Start talking about other nba topics. There is a ton of em. and people might be interested to hear your opinion.

I was pleasantly surprised to see you're Garnett topic from earlier today. But even then in the back of my mind I was wondering if wasn't some underhanded way to prop up Kobe.


Just talk about something else for once.

What do you think about Basketball maybe coming back to seattle? Pretty exciting?!