What is talent? (Vince Carter related)

[elementally morale]

No, read my other post. It is developed physical abilities as well,

Development has a lot to do with your mindset and hard work, right? So what is talent? Putting in the work when you are young and before you are shown on TV?

Serious question.

['Toine=MVP]

...Let's say half the games LeBron decides to give full effort on offense and defense and half the games he clearly plays passively and admits he just didn't want to try. Is he less talented those days? Is he less talented overall because he doesn't always try hard? Of course not. It is a physical skill-set. People are disappointed with guys who can be amazing at times but seemingly don't care enough to play at that level all the time. They are considered wasted talents.

P.S. The LeBron example was hypothetical.

[elementally morale]

talent to me is synomynous with potential. To fulfill that potential/talent you need to put in work. Also, if you're more talented than someone else, you reach the same level with less effort, and your ceiling is higher.

That's exactly what I thought at age 25. On a sidenote: How old are you? (I'm curious.)

['Toine=MVP]

Development has a lot to do with your mindset and hard work, right? So what is talent? Putting in the work when you are young and before you are shown on TV?

Serious question.

Sure. If someone is driven as a young person and works hard to develop physical abilities, then he has certainly made himself more talented. If he chooses to tank it as an NBA player that has nothing to do with his talent level.

Increasing ones talent is not a talent in my opinion.

[Brunch@Five]

That's exactly what I thought at age 25. On a sidenote: How old are you? (I'm curious.)

21. Work ethic I believe is something you learn, depends on how you're brought up. Work ethic is essential to fulfill your talent, but is not a talent itself.

[elementally morale]

Increasing ones talent is not a talent in my opinion.

I don't know what to call it then. Is being able to select what you are really talented in considered talent?

I mean... if Shaq would have decided to become an actor, we would call him not that talented, right?

[elementally morale]

Work ethic is essential to fulfill your talent, but is not a talent itself.

What is it then? Ability?

If it is ability, is it natural? Or you have to work on being able to put in the work to improve your talent?

I'm not kidding with you, sorry if I may come off as someone doing just that.

[Brunch@Five]

What is it then? Ability?

If it is ability, is it natural? Or you have to work on being able to put in the work to improve your talent?

I'm not kidding with you, sorry if I may come off as someone doing just that.

work ethic is a pattern of behaviour. Like etiquette, honesty etc

['Toine=MVP]

I don't know what to call it then. Is being able to select what you are really talented in considered talent?

I mean... if Shaq would have decided to become an actor, we would call him not that talented, right?

what? do you mean not that talented at acting? i think we are only talking about basketball talent right? because we could say he is not that talented at acting right now. but maybe he would have become a great actor, and then we would consider him very talented at acting (long shot).

maybe you mean if he chose to act instead of play basketball we would not consider him a talented basketball player. well, that might be true. but it would depend on how good he would have been at playing basketball in that scenario. if his post moves were worse because of that choice, he'd be a less talented post player.

[elementally morale]

work ethic is a pattern of behaviour.

So it is totally up to you to decide whether your work ethic will be 'great' or 'bad' then? Or is it sheer luck?

[artificial]

When I was 10 or 15, I was considered to be talented in arts and languages. I did OK in school and my math skills were not 'bad', but others thought I would not make a scientist. My picture of myself was the same: I thought I would end up being a writer/musician of some sort.

And I am a physicist, and not that bad at it. To some extent you can learn things, it seems. But is that ability talent? What should I call it? Luck? I may as well call it having been lucky, after all it's true.

Haha, I knew I liked you for some reason. I was considered to be talented in languages -and still want to think so- (although I was never considered talented in arts besides writing). Still, I love writing and know 3 languages fluently. And when I was around 10 I clearly remember crying because I simply didn't understood math.

Despite all that I'm close to getting my college degree in math

Not sure I understand what you mean by ability talent here. But overall yes, I do think as talents as luck of some sort. And the talent to fulfil your talents, that's the one talent everyone has to believe they have, despite clear cases of people who don't.

[elementally morale]

what? do you mean not that talented at acting? i think we are only talking about basketball talent right? because we could say he is not that talented at acting right now. but maybe he would have become a great actor, and then we would consider him very talented at acting (long shot).

maybe you mean if he chose to act instead of play basketball we would not consider him a talented basketball player. well, that might be true. but it would depend on how good he would have been at playing basketball in that scenario. if his post moves were worse because of that choice, he'd be a less talented post player.

I mean both.

Had he chosen acting as a profession, he may have turned out to be an average actor. And then at age 25, being a lot slower and weaker you would have given him a basketball. He would play like a tall O'Neal but not like Shaq.

So him having picked up acting as a career option made him less talented as a basketball player? Is the ability to decide which sport/other activity to choose 'talent'? AI could have been great at Football. LBJ, too. Or Shaq at boxing, possibly.

But I'm done with stupid questions like that. I will listen to others' opinions instead. Thx for answering.

[jamal99]

I think talent is basically just ability. It includes natural abilities, developed ones, athleticism, and skills.

Ray Allen is a talented shooter. Kidd is a talented passer. Carmelo is a talented scorer. Howard is a talented shot blocker. Al Jefferson is a talented post player. Vince Carter is a talented dunker. Tony Parker is a talented penetrator. Kobe is a talented finisher.

I think that, let's say Howard is talented shot blocker only because he's so athletic, same for Carter's dunking ability, would he be able to do it without his athletic ability? No.
I agree that his dunks look better than some other equally athletic guy, but main part of that is athleticism.

Ray Allen's shooting, Kidd's passing, Carmelo's scoring (that's little bit athleticism based) are very little (to none) are based on athleticism. While Al's post playing, Tony's penetrating and Kobe's finishing ability are more based on their athleticism. It requires some other natural abilities tho...

['Toine=MVP]

I think that, let's say Howard is talented shot blocker only because he's so athletic, same for Carter's dunking ability, would he be able to do it without his athletic ability? No.
I agree that his dunks look better than some other equally athletic guy, but main part of that is athleticism.

Ray Allen's shooting, Kidd's passing, Carmelo's scoring (that's little bit athleticism based) are very little (to none) are based on athleticism. While Al's post playing, Tony's penetrating and Kobe's finishing ability are more based on their athleticism. It requires some other natural abilities tho...

yeah, but that analysis doesn't help. i am saying all that stuff adds up to talent.

[elementally morale]

because I simply didn't understood math.

Wait... Haven't you just said you were talented in writing?