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Old 08-25-2012, 03:35 AM   #212
NugzHeat3
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Join Date: Jun 2009
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Default Re: 2012 OTC WWWF/WWF/WWE Match Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackass18
Sorry that I don't have time to give a proper response, but how can you say, "Savage is a ridiculously easy choice over Bret" and then only basically give it to Savage in 1 of the criteria, and IMO, being the worst one, drawing power? Are record sales your top criteria for ranking bands? Do you rank movies by how they did at the box office? Do you rank TV shows based upon ratings? There are plenty of factors that go into drawing power (If you're going against someone like Hogan, then you're probably going to have a big audience). There's just so much to it that I just don't like it that much to make a big deal out of. I think most, if not all already gave it to Savage for drawing power, mic work, but he lost out elsewhere. I think some seriously underrated his charisma. You act like he was Dean Malenko when he wasn't.
Well, for one, I can admit I'm biased. I'm a Savage mark while Bret doesn't appeal to me in the slightest.

Second, drawing power is the biggest factor since it's the most objective one in pro wrestling. Being a draw is a talent especially for a guy like Savage who appealed to all demographics unlike say Cena who has a marketing machine behind him and has a character aimed primarily at the kids who piss themsleves everytime someone mentions his name. For someone like Cena, I wouldn't use drawing power as an argument to the same extent for the reason above and he isn't a major draw to begin with anyway. But generally, the ability to engage and invest the entire audience to your character and have them pay to see you is a big factor.

You can back that up by facts and numbers but when you start talking about mic work, promos, ring work and even some of the more obvious attributes such as charisma where there isn't as much room for debate, people can greatly differ and let bias cloud their judgment. I do it too, nothing new really.

For example, I know several people who say Rock was terrible (not an exaggeration) on the mic because his promos were redundant, very catchphrase heavy, material was childish and he often worked from a script unlike some of the other greats such as Piper, Flair, Austin, Roberts ect. He was also mediocre in the ring outside of selling and this is pretty much a consensus opinion so basically Rock only had 1/3 categories down for a lot of people. But are you really going to tell me he doesn't belong in the upper echelon of the GOAT list despite all the criticisms people have of him?

That's where a set criteria where you weigh each category equally gives a flawed rewsult imo. If you didn't know that was the Rock and some random wrestler who has 1/3 of those categories down, would you really say he's anything more than your average wrestler?

Rock was way too big of a star, drew more money for the business than anybody not named Hogan/Austin and connected with the audience at a level very few if any ever did. You can't really deny his impact on the business and these factors alone warrant a great deal of praise.

That's the point I was trying to get at. Star power/drawing ability can often be the most telling aspect and I don't think you'd ever find a major draw that wasn't talented. They'll have flaws, at times several but for the most part, you're talking about highly talented performers. At the same time though, I'd agree the fact that someone doesn't draw at a high level doesn't mean they aren't talented. Case in point, Chris Jericho.

Also, if I was to breakdown further, the only category I really have down for Bret is ring work and I agree he wasn't Dean Malenko when it comes to charisma, but wasn't a notch above him either. I just didn't think highly of him.

Workrate - Bret
Drawing power - Savage
Look - Savage
Mic work - Savage
Promos - Savage
Charisma - Savage
Presence (i.e aura, personality, attention you command) - Savage

^Promos and mic work are interrelated to some extent but you can differentiate between these attributes. Promos are more about your content and material while mic work is your versatility, how you convery emotion, your understanding of pacing, raising the intensity depending on the situation ect. Come to think of it, charisma and presence are interchangeable too.
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