Jordan Hill

[dd24]

Did anybody else hear what Barkley said after the game? The Lakers lost due to strategy. Karl is a better coach than Brown......

[Frank Foley]

The bigger disappointment with more than half of this forum was that Mike Brown was hated on right after he was hired. he hadn't been given a fair shot, and just because in the very beginning when there was chemistry problems, people never factored in the lockout, or the players being out of shape, or the timeline for training camp.

This whole season was expected to be the way it happened. So far there were no surprises to me, other than the blossoming of Bynum, which was a good surprise.

Kobe himself said at the end of the regular season that his relationship with Mike Brown was better than ever. But hey, if its never in the best interest of the person debating, nobody acknowledges it.

Oh please. You really think we don't want Brown to succeed, just so we could be proven right?

Let me explain it to you via analogy. (I'm not arguing by analogy--I'm just trying to elucidate what I and a lot of Laker fans were feeling when Brown was hired).

Imagine you owned the finest sports car ever. It was one of a kind, ran like a dream--the only problem was that it was so complicated and expensive that no mechanic on Earth could fix it once it inevitably broke down. Still, you had a great 10+ years with the thing, and wouldn't have traded your time with it for anything.

So your best-of-its-kind-ever car is gone. But, thankfully, over the last 10+ years, you've amassed enough money to buy literally ANY car on the open market. Dealers are FIGHTING each other just to get the chance to offer you their best.

This time around, you want something different. Your old car was really, really nice but really expensive and high-maintenance, so you pass on the Bugatti, Aston Martin and Lamborghini. OK, then. That's understandable.

You're offered a nice range of reliable but still high performance cars. A high-end BMW or Lexus becomes available, but you pass. You think you know cars, and you want to take the car that really WOWed you in its test drive.

Imagine if the car you ultimately picked was a 1987 Datsun pickup. And you paid in the price range of the BMW or Lexus, even though you totally didn't have to. Do you truly, honestly expect your friends to not give you crap (or at least not be surprised) when they find out what you picked?

This is where you roll your eyes at me for comparing Mike Brown to a 1987 Datsun. But it's not a complete insult. Those things were solid and reliable. You knew what you had with them. They were nice non-date cars.

But, again, you had your pick of EVERY CAR ON THE OPEN MARKET AND YOU PICKED A FREAKING DATSUN. Expect more than a little bit of second-guessing to take place.

So, yeah. I would love love LOVE to have to eat crow. Win a championship, Mike Brown. I would gladly retire my ISH account forever on principle if he won us a title. And as a mod, you can actually hold me to that. Do it. You have my permission.

But I expect and know better.

Oh, and by the way, your post had an air of pretension in it that's pretty hilarious (I'm not sure if it was intentional, so forgive me if I'm wrong). Calling out your team when it does something questionable does NOT make you a bad fan. Just like being an apologist or contrarian to these alleged haters does not make you a better fan. I'm not calling you an apologist, btw, but to say we're being big meanie heads for not giving Brownie a chance is to miss the point entirely. This is the mother****ing LAKERS. A B- or C+ coach is not gonna cut it.

And one more thing. You're suggesting that Brown is getting an unfair share of the blame when things go wrong. I can only give anecdotal evidence, but most of the fury I saw from Laker fans tonight was levied at the entire team. Brown got his portion of hater stew, but most of the fans I know and read rightfully called out Bynum and Gasol (and pretty much everyone but Kobe and Hill) for giving less than one iota of ****.

That seems... fair to me. They all deserve to be called out. Brown hasn't made the necessary adjustments, Bynum's being a team cancer, Gasol's turned back into Unengaged McPassivity, Sessions and Blake still don't play defense, Barnes and Ebanks have been shooting the ball like they owe a Denver mob boss money, etc. Kobe's the only one bringing it every night, and that fact alone is why so many fans give him a free pass when he goes 1-on-5 on a given night.

[DKLaker]

Frank Foley that was
AND Datsun

I'm not sure Lakerfreak knows what a Datsun is

FF, I can complain that you don't post enough.....but I can't complain about the QUALITY of your posts

[dd24]

Frank Foley, that's the best way I've seen it explained. I've been trying to put that into words for a while now. And yes tonight there's a lot of finger pointing to do, it's not just the coach. It really looks like there's guys who have just given up and I have to wonder if it has something to do with Brown or not. After watching Bynum's post game comments it really seems like he's completely checked out. He was pretty upset about not playing in the 4th quarter too. Pau didn't show up at all and while he has been professional publicly about his role change with the team one would have to think he's not happy about it. Or maybe Pau's wife cheated on him again (because she just likes to do that during the playoffs) and this time it was with Bynum

[DKLaker]

Did anybody else hear what Barkley said after the game? The Lakers lost due to strategy. Karl is a better coach than Brown......

There are a ton of AAU, High School, College, NBA, FIBA etc coaches who would destroy Mike Brown in a even level talent head to head battle.
I'm not kidding.....the dumbass still cant figure out that playing Blake and Sessions at the same time is a stupid idea. We need a real coach. Kobe should have sat out the game and coached the team tonight....the only chance we had.

[dd24]

I'm not kidding.....the dumbass still cant figure out that playing Blake and Sessions at the same time is a stupid idea. We need a real coach. Kobe should have sat out the game and coached the team tonight....the only chance we had.

I was really confused by the small ball move too. That's the whole reason Brewer was lighting it up..... Blake and Sessions are too small to be guarding him. The guy is 6'9". Why on earth did it take so long to get a SF back on the court??? Not to mention it was Pau and Hill in the front court at that time too wasn't it? At least have Bynum in the game if he's going to make a move like that. It would've been crazy for him to sit Kobe in the begining of the 4th too. I'm glad Kobe pleaded with him to stay in the game. That was really smart of Kobe. Kobe realized if they were going to make a run they needed to do it right away and if the game was still out of control then he'd end up getting his rest at the end of the game. You at least have to go all in and give it a chance rather than try to give up in the begining of the 4th.

I mentioned before there's more fingers to be pointed tonight than just at Brown, but those are some of the things that really upset me that he did tonight.

[TryToBeUnbias]

No knock on Hill but Murphy should probably see time with bynum.

Hill with gasol.

[DKLaker]

No knock on Hill but Murphy should probably see time with bynum.

Hill with gasol.

I think I know where you're going with this....and I'll probably agree with you, so please explain your reasons.

[dd24]

No knock on Hill but Murphy should probably see time with bynum.

Hill with gasol.

I see the logic behind it on paper but I just haven't been impressed with what Murphy has done at all. I'd rather just see Hill and McRoberts.

[TryToBeUnbias]

I think I know where you're going with this....and I'll probably agree with you, so please explain your reasons.

Spacing ? then yes that's exactly where I'm going with it the nuggets have no respect for the Lakers perimeter shooting.

[TryToBeUnbias]

I see the logic behind it on paper but I just haven't been impressed with what Murphy has done at all. I'd rather just see Hill and McRoberts.

I'd like to see mcroberts play a little more as well he'd do better on maninmal or whatever his name is I just haven't had any complaints about Hills play other the fact that I feel like he shouldn't be shooting at all.

Like I posted previously I was just looking for someone to help space the floor so at least one the twin towers has more room to operate.

Honestly Defense is the main issue.

[B]

Oh please. You really think we don't want Brown to succeed, just so we could be proven right?

Let me explain it to you via analogy. (I'm not arguing by analogy--I'm just trying to elucidate what I and a lot of Laker fans were feeling when Brown was hired).

Imagine you owned the finest sports car ever. It was one of a kind, ran like a dream--the only problem was that it was so complicated and expensive that no mechanic on Earth could fix it once it inevitably broke down. Still, you had a great 10+ years with the thing, and wouldn't have traded your time with it for anything.

So your best-of-its-kind-ever car is gone. But, thankfully, over the last 10+ years, you've amassed enough money to buy literally ANY car on the open market. Dealers are FIGHTING each other just to get the chance to offer you their best.

This time around, you want something different. Your old car was really, really nice but really expensive and high-maintenance, so you pass on the Bugatti, Aston Martin and Lamborghini. OK, then. That's understandable.

You're offered a nice range of reliable but still high performance cars. A high-end BMW or Lexus becomes available, but you pass. You think you know cars, and you want to take the car that really WOWed you in its test drive.

Imagine if the car you ultimately picked was a 1987 Datsun pickup. And you paid in the price range of the BMW or Lexus, even though you totally didn't have to. Do you truly, honestly expect your friends to not give you crap (or at least not be surprised) when they find out what you picked?

This is where you roll your eyes at me for comparing Mike Brown to a 1987 Datsun. But it's not a complete insult. Those things were solid and reliable. You knew what you had with them. They were nice non-date cars.

But, again, you had your pick of EVERY CAR ON THE OPEN MARKET AND YOU PICKED A FREAKING DATSUN. Expect more than a little bit of second-guessing to take place.

So, yeah. I would love love LOVE to have to eat crow. Win a championship, Mike Brown. I would gladly retire my ISH account forever on principle if he won us a title. And as a mod, you can actually hold me to that. Do it. You have my permission.

But I expect and know better.

Oh, and by the way, your post had an air of pretension in it that's pretty hilarious (I'm not sure if it was intentional, so forgive me if I'm wrong). Calling out your team when it does something questionable does NOT make you a bad fan. Just like being an apologist or contrarian to these alleged haters does not make you a better fan. I'm not calling you an apologist, btw, but to say we're being big meanie heads for not giving Brownie a chance is to miss the point entirely. This is the mother****ing LAKERS. A B- or C+ coach is not gonna cut it.

And one more thing. You're suggesting that Brown is getting an unfair share of the blame when things go wrong. I can only give anecdotal evidence, but most of the fury I saw from Laker fans tonight was levied at the entire team. Brown got his portion of hater stew, but most of the fans I know and read rightfully called out Bynum and Gasol (and pretty much everyone but Kobe and Hill) for giving less than one iota of ****.

That seems... fair to me. They all deserve to be called out. Brown hasn't made the necessary adjustments, Bynum's being a team cancer, Gasol's turned back into Unengaged McPassivity, Sessions and Blake still don't play defense, Barnes and Ebanks have been shooting the ball like they owe a Denver mob boss money, etc. Kobe's the only one bringing it every night, and that fact alone is why so many fans give him a free pass when he goes 1-on-5 on a given night.

Your finest sportscar in the world got swept out of the playoffs by a pickup truck last year

[Frank Foley]

[QUOTE=B

[dd24]

Four points:
1) I said at the very beginning that I wasn't arguing by analogy--I was trying to explain what I (and others) were thinking when this whole thing went down.
2) I also mentioned that Phil's time was up--I still wouldn't trade those years for anything, would you?
3) Carlisle was more like a pickup truck with a hidden turbocharged engine. People are going to argue that it's 20/20 hindsight, but he truly was a respected basketball mind even prior to last year. And if anecdotal evidence isn't good enough for you, just look at how he continued to tinker and adjust throughout last year's playoffs. He did a great job. I haven't seen Datsun doing the same.
4) It was unnecessary to quote that entire long post just to throw in a one-liner. But thanks for the acknowledgment earlier in the thread.

Gotcha Bobo !!!!!!!

[magicmanfan]

Honestly Defense is the main issue.

I think it's consistent effort that is missing....

Sometimes we look like a serious contender.. other times
we suk!