Final list of ISHs Top 25 Guards.

[Kblaze8855]

Top 25
------------
#25 Joe Dumars
#24 Earl Monroe
#23 Tracy McGrady
#22 Tiny Archibald
#21 Dennis Johnson
#20 Reggie Miller
#19 Ray Allen
#18 Sam Jones
#17 Hal Greer
#16 George Gervin
#15 Allen Iverson
#14 Gary Payton
#13 Clyde Drexler
#12 Steve Nash
#11 Jason Kidd
#10 John Stockton
#9 Walt Frazier
#8 Dwyane Wade
#7 Bob Cousy
#6 Isiah Thomas
#5 Oscar Robertson
#4 Jerry West
#3 Kobe Bryant
#2 Magic Johnson
#1 Michael Jordan.

Thoughts?

Who is too high? Too low? Missing?



I'll give GOAT time to return to do the forwards I guess. Mostly becuase I really really really dont feel like counting up 10-15 peoples lists of top 25 forwards to get the list to begin the voting.

Plus as I understood it hes making a top 100 and would therefore have to split small forwards and power forwards up to get 25 of each to go with 25 guards and 25 centers so....not sure what hes doing. Not trying to **** up his process......

[Legends66NBA7]

Looking back at this most of the players are in the right spots.

Cousy is a little too high, IMO.

Iverson and Payton are low.

Missing would be Pistol Pete.

[JordanTime]

Looking back at this most of the players are in the right spots.

Cousy is a little too high, IMO.

Iverson and Payton are low.

Missing would be Pistol Pete.

agreed on everything Legends66NBA7 said.

[DMAVS41]

Nash is a little too high for me.

[Sarcastic]

Looking back at this most of the players are in the right spots.

Cousy is a little too high, IMO.

Iverson and Payton are low.

Missing would be Pistol Pete.

I agree.
Iverson is hated around here by all the stat nerds, so it was expected.

[Fatal9]

Cousy...just SMH.


I rate players by different measures so my list is much different but Cousy at 7 just sticks out.

[Kblaze8855]

Its funny to me how people talk up accomplishments and winning when only one of the top 15 didnt lead his team to more success than Cousy did without Russell.

Cousy is a name. He didnt actually take his teams anywhere. But a lot of "Winning matters most" types prop him up as if they didnt notice the Celtics were better without him.


edit:

At a glance...18 people of the 25 had more playoff success than Cousy without Russell. And thats not counting several people who were key players on title teams like Tiny, Dumars, and Ray Allen. At least 18 straight up led their teams to more success.

But they didnt get Bill Russell to ride for half a career.

[MasterDurant24]

Top 25
------------
#25 Joe Dumars
#24 Earl Monroe
#23 Tracy McGrady
#22 Tiny Archibald
#21 Dennis Johnson
#20 Reggie Miller
#19 Ray Allen
#18 Sam Jones
#17 Hal Greer
#16 George Gervin
#15 Allen Iverson
#14 Gary Payton
#13 Clyde Drexler
#12 Steve Nash
#11 Jason Kidd
#10 John Stockton
#9 Walt Frazier
#8 Dwyane Wade
#7 Bob Cousy
#6 Isiah Thomas
#5 Oscar Robertson
#4 Jerry West
#3 Kobe Bryant
#2 Magic Johnson
#1 Michael Jordan.

Thoughts?

Who is too high? Too low? Missing?



I'll give GOAT time to return to do the forwards I guess. Mostly becuase I really really really dont feel like counting up 10-15 peoples lists of top 25 forwards to get the list to begin the voting.

Plus as I understood it hes making a top 100 and would therefore have to split small forwards and power forwards up to get 25 of each to go with 25 guards and 25 centers so....not sure what hes doing. Not trying to **** up his process......

Good list. Cousy too high, I would have Sam Jones over Hal Greer, and DJ over Reggie Miller.

[Kblaze8855]

Good list. Cousy too high, I would have Sam Jones over Hal Greer, and DJ over Reggie Miller.

Few things ever confused me like seeing people rank Reggie over DJ for making jumpers and being clutch while losing 19 years in a row. Seems his jumpers and clutchness didnt do much when it mattered. By winning or just...ability? DJ should have destroyed Reggie. And DJ was an elite player. An all nba first teamer. An all time great defender. A guy who was doing Reggie like numbers in the playoffs(plus assists) in a smaller offensive role while having to guard everyone from Isiah, to MJ, to Magic.

But Reggie made 9 shots most here remember seeing so hes better.....

[1987_Lakers]

Thought DJ should be ranked over Miller & Nash over Kidd & Stockton.

[AlphaWolf24]

Now to the real question...what is the % of the "voters" who actually watched basketball before 1996???....

betcha it's around 15%...


No one here ever watched Magic's ,Cousy's,MJ's prime except maybe 15%

[NuggetsFan]

Now to the real question...what is the % of the "voters" who actually watched basketball before 1996???....

betcha it's around 15%...


No one here ever watched Magic's ,Cousy's,MJ's prime except maybe 15%

Bingo. I'll talk about them after carefully looking over whatever I can but I can't tell you about Bob Cousy. I can tell you awards\statistics\few games that are available but that's about it.

You ask a 70 year old man who's followed basketball his entire life and I bet you he laughs at a list like that. Can you imagine 20 years from now everybody going off numbers\awards\youtube video's? Monta Ellis set to be a top 10 guard of the 00's

[AlphaWolf24]

Bingo. I'll talk about them after carefully looking over whatever I can but I can't tell you about Bob Cousy. I can tell you awards\statistics\few games that are available but that's about it.

You ask a 70 year old man who's followed basketball his entire life and I bet you he laughs at a list like that. Can you imagine 20 years from now everybody going off numbers\awards\youtube video's? Monta Ellis set to be a top 10 guard of the 00's

serious....

I Know Kblaze has been following hoops for awhile at least since the late 80's.....but 90% of these other cats just saying same tired stuff that everyone else who never watched basketball before 1996 says...


I guarantee most prolly never seen MJ in a Bull's uniform

except on youtube.

[Kblaze8855]

I was thinking about that a while ago. Jordan on the Bulls was a long ass time ago. there ae adults who were born after he retired the first time. Shit makes me feel old. Doesnt seem that long ago....

[magnax1]

I'll never get how TMac can be behind guys like Dennis Johnson and Reggie Miller. That is just insane to me. Other wise, the only other things that stick out are AI is a couple spots to low for me, and Frazier over Stockton is kind of silly to me. Overall, not that terribly different from my list.