"Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

[LJJ]

I would guess he's laughing at the fact the guy's education has nothing to do with empirical science.

Guys bringing up their title discussing something unrelated always makes me suspicious. It's just another way to impress dumb people.

It's questionable for someone to stoop to that level period, someone's expertise should be evident, but when it's a degree in a wholly unrelated subject? Cringe.

[-p.tiddy-]

Can someone explain me why nobody sees Hell during this nde's? It's amazing!

99% of the people just aren't Heaven material, but apparently everyone is going to Heaven regardless, You would figure that when the conscience detaches the body of the sinner he would see hell, you would figure that the LARGE majority of people would be experiencing hell.


Off-course it had to be a drunk driving apologist to makes a thread like this.

they do actually...they call it "the void"

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research15.html

it isn't like the Christian hell of burning for eternity, but it is "hell" in a sense

[shlver]

A true NDE has never been reproduced without a flat line...there is no drug that can do it, only drugs that do similar effects.

I don't care about what they say a true nde is. I care about the symptoms and some of those symptoms have been reproduced by medically observed phenomena. This is fact.

Really I don't think you have any idea what NDEs do to people...they come out of them completely different people altogether. Many quit their jobs and devote themselves to charity work, is there a drug out there doing that to people? No one has ever claimed one to be a dream after having one. They see loved ones in spirit form that they KNOW FOR FACT was them...they see God, they go through various levels of spirit universe, can all that be reproduced on a regular? No it can't.

It doesn't matter. I'm talking about brain physiology.

Why would our brains give everyone the same dream? That is unexplainable by science right now. Everyone is telling the same story regardless of race age religion, etc...

Give me sources.
I also recall from an earlier thread that the majority of people that had NDE's also had a religious background. Don't quote me on that.

[OhNoTimNoSho]

I can sum this up pretty easily.


I don't know, therefore heaven.

[-p.tiddy-]

I don't care about what they say a true nde is. I care about the symptoms and some of those symptoms have been reproduced by medically observed phenomena. This is fact.

It doesn't matter. I'm talking about brain physiology.

Give me sources.
I also recall from an earlier thread that the majority of people that had NDE's also had a religious background. Don't quote me on that.

No it is NOT FACT. what I listed ARE the symptoms...kentamine and the other one can give similar OBE type effects but they aren't the same things at all.

This is why it is obvious you don't understand what people who have NDEs go through...because the steps they go through are all the same, and they are life changing.

People who have NDEs generally come back LESS religious and more spiritual...that is another symptom...all people have them...ill post source for that when off my phone.

[shlver]

I have a couple of exams so I'm just going to sum it up really fast for primetme

First, it is fact that the symptoms of NDE's have been reproduced by medically observed phenomena. Research it. Don't just take my word as truth
Do not misconstrue this to mean we know the source of a "true NDE." All we glean from this is that under certain physiological conditions, the brain is capable of creating a similar experience.
Second, the credentials of a scientist or doctor or any professional lends nothing to the validity of their beliefs.

[shlver]

No it is NOT FACT. what I listed ARE the symptoms...kentamine and the other one can give similar OBE type effects but they aren't the same things at all.

Which means... that under certain physiological conditions, the brain is capable of creating a similar experience.

[-p.tiddy-]

I can sum this up pretty easily.


I don't know, therefore heaven.

He is claiming he DOES know

[-p.tiddy-]

Which means... that under certain physiological conditions, the brain is capable of creating a similar experience.

Some of the effects are "similar"

Again, an NDE event has specific steps...first go through tunnel, then life review, then meeting with God, then shown void, then meet spirits, etc etc...the drugs that supposedly can reproduce just give people an OBE, which is part of an NDE but not the same at all.

It's like saying getting drunk and blacking out is reproducing getting knocked out in a fight...they are similar but not the same

[-p.tiddy-]

I have a couple of exams so I'm just going to sum it up really fast for primetme

First, it is fact that the symptoms of NDE's have been reproduced by medically observed phenomena. Research it. Don't just take my word as truth
Do not misconstrue this to mean we know the source of a "true NDE." All we glean from this is that under certain physiological conditions, the brain is capable of creating a similar experience.
Second, the credentials of a scientist or doctor or any professional lends nothing to the validity of their beliefs.

I have read up on this for years now, I promise you it isn't fact...only an NDE gives people the feeling discribed by the author and thousands others...no drug has accomplished it ...drugs have only accomplished OBE symptoms, no one is seeing their dead relatives though.

[shlver]

I have read up on this for years now, I promise you it isn't fact...only an NDE gives people the feeling discribed by the author and thousands others...no drug has accomplished it ...drugs have only accomplished OBE symptoms, no one is seeing their dead relatives though.

okay, people just want to believe I guess.

[-p.tiddy-]

Shvler if it was "fact" they can reproduce them in a lab there would be no one debating them...the author would have no book, etc.

The people that believe are the people that have them....ALL OF THEM...the naysayers are the people on the outside

[miller-time]

That is a theory by nay Sayers...


She was able to describe all the instruments used on her during the operation without ever seeing them...(like most NDEs)...how does a dream do that?

That isn't a theory. That is the order of events. She recalls things from the operation prep and she recalls going back into her body. She doesn't recall anything from the time when she was "dead." Remember the operation took a number of hours but she was only at a stand still for a 5 minute window, a window where she doesn't recall anything. The biggest thing NDEers love to claim about this case is that it happens during a time when it is impossible for her brain to be working. It is only a 5 minute window. She isn't brain dead for hours and floating around the hospital. When she sees the tools and notices her shaved head for instance her brain is still creating EPs.

[shlver]

Shvler if it was "fact" they can reproduce them in a lab there would be no one debating them...the author would have no book, etc.

The people that believe are the people that have them....ALL OF THEM...the naysayers are the people on the outside

I never said that they could "reproduce them in a lab." I said there are medically observed phenomena that reproduce the SYMPTOMS of NDE's.

[-p.tiddy-]

That isn't a theory. That is the order of events. She recalls things from the operation prep and she recalls going back into her body. She doesn't recall anything from the time when she was "dead." Remember the operation took a number of hours but she was only at a stand still for a 5 minute window, a window where she doesn't recall anything. The biggest thing NDEers love to claim about this case is that it happens during a time when it is impossible for her brain to be working. It is only a 5 minute window. She isn't brain dead for hours and floating around the hospital. When she sees the tools and notices her shaved head for instance her brain is still creating EPs.

Her doctor claims no brain waves for over an hour...watch the video.