Chris Kyle dead.....

[KevinNYC]

How about if he was killing Americans? would he be a hero then?

isnt heroism a point of view?

wtf

I agree on the point of view. However, I think "killing Iraqis" is way too simplistic. The Iraqis he was facing were intentionally killing other Iraqi civilians. They also weren't just Iraqis. He earned his knickname in Ramadi which is an area that Zarqawi who was Jordanian was quite active in and wanted to "cleanse" of Shiites. Al Qaeda in Iraq had taken over and operated openly in parts of Ramadi. It was only in 2007 when the Sunni tribes who were part of the insurgency turned on the foreign fighters that Al Qaeda was driven out of Ramadi.

So I don't think people who kill to terrorize civilains are heroes.

[KevinNYC]

No one signs up for a combat MOS just to sit around and spit shine our shoes..

I think that's it right there. Not every one in the military signs up for a combat occupation.

[millwad]

I agree on the point of view. However, I think "killing Iraqis" is way too simplistic. The Iraqis he was facing were intentionally killing other Iraqi civilians. They also weren't just Iraqis. He earned his knickname in Ramadi which is an area that Zarqawi who was Jordanian was quite active in and wanted to "cleanse" of Shiites. Al Qaeda in Iraq had taken over and operated openly in parts of Ramadi. It was only in 2007 when the Sunni tribes who were part of the insurgency turned on the foreign fighters that Al Qaeda was driven out of Ramadi.

So I don't people who kill to terrorize civilains are heroes.

He wasn't only in Ramadi.

[KevinNYC]

That is true. Neither was Zarqawi.

BTW, I made an offer at the one of my of my earlier posts to you here.

[millwad]

That is true. Neither was Zarqawi.

BTW, I made an offer at the one of my of my earlier posts to you here.

Yes, I saw it, I laughed and couldn't believe that you'd be this pathetic. And I replied but I got logged out and the text disappeared and you're frankly not worth the time.

It's called a forum, the purpose of a forum is to discuss. I couldn't care less about you leaving the forum or if anyone thinks you're more right or wrong but one thing I know for sure is that no one cares.

You need to mature some.

And oh, so you basically mean that Zarqawi and his buddies were all over Iraq and that the war actually was only a war against Al-Qaeda? Please, tell me you're not serious.

[AlphaWolf24]

I think that's it right there. Not every one in the military signs up for a combat occupation.

- True...but lets not get it twisted....

- You can sign up for a non combat MOS ( Fix GPS systems or Tele comm ,Admin or Photo journalists work on Airplanes or Radars....) but all that comes down to one Basic principle..

Be ready to use your skills in a combat role when your command deems necassary.

- Is it likely that a non combat MOS will approximate contact with a enemy threat?....not likely...


but it happens alot,

- We had Comm guy who was seting up a antenna spot a Truck Full of armed Iraqi's.......he called back to Artillery and told them to FFE ( send alot of artillery rounds to his location)...he ended up bein the direct catalyst for that elimination....despite working on Communicatio equipment.

- Everyone who signs up knows they might have a hand in WAR....some a little.....some a grip full.

[KevinNYC]

You need to mature some.

And oh, so you basically mean that Zarqawi and his buddies were all over Iraq and that the war actually was only a war against Al-Qaeda? Please, tell me you're not serious.

At some point, the Sunni insurgency made a strategic decision to ally with foreign jihadists and boycott the democratic process until they realized it was a big mistake several years later.

[pauk]

no, the iraq war was stupid, we all know that.........but when the enemy gives you nicknames, then it means you are speciel.......
.
btw, on wiki it says the sniper with mosts kills is a finnish soldier in the WW2 era.......504 soviet soldiers killed........insane

Yea, Simo Hayha is his name... "confirmed" 505 kills but he probably killed more than that... lived to be almost 100...

I saw an interview with him where he said that the key to his success was patience, experience and not using scopes, only the default iron sights with a bolt action mosin nagant because he got better view and a realistic feeling of the distance between him and the target which is how he trained for automatic bulletdrop & wind calculations... plus the scope is prone to reflection giving away his position and would fog up in cold weather.... speaking of patience, he said he used to dig himself inside the snow and wait there for hours until he got a kill and then he would immediately relocate, sometimes on a snowstacked tree and would use the same method to avoid detection when the enemies in to many numbers would patrol around him.... dude was the GOAT

[red1]

So basically you're saying because of the context he couldn't demonstrate heroism. To me that's a bit simplistic. Like I mentioned in another thread, American fought a long culture war after Vietnam, it helped us separate our feelings for policy makers and those who are the instruments of policy makers.

He did win several medals for valor. The citation says he helped rescue fellow soldiers and two journalists who had been pinned down by enemy fire. He exposed himself to enemy fire during the rescue. Another time he exposed himself to enemy fire during an RPG attack to rescue other fellow soldiers.

I don't know about you, but that's more heroic than anything I've done. As I have gotten older, I have become very wary of criticizing "the man in the arena" when I am not in their shoes. For example, Paul Bremer was a disaster as the head of the CPA and made a couple of decisions that helped kickstart the insurgency for which deserves criticism. However, I also know he probably worked harder on that job that I have ever done. I don't know if I would be able to put months of 18-hour days at my age, let alone at his.

One problem with being an American Soldier since 1946 is you are often used not in a straight defense of your country, but to further American interests and in that role, you can be used wisely or not.

No one is doubting that he took huge risks and made ballsy sacrifices but you basically said it yourself when you acknowledge that it was those in power who wasted his efforts. I am going to get off this because I feel that this is in poor taste but I just wanted to share another perspective