Who is the best defensive shooting guard of all time?

[1987_Lakers]

When you think of great defensive players, you generally think of forwards and centers and not guards (probably because guards are more dynamic offensive positions and very difficult to guard) and I think this is especially true with shooting guards. Shooting guards generate a lot of offense, they are very quick, they are great ball-handlers, they can shoot well (usually), drive well (usually), and they are some of the best athletes on the court. When I was trying to think of all-time great defensive shooting guards I had a lot of trouble. Jordan certainly comes to mind as he certainly had all the ability to be the best defensive SG ever. But was he really the best? I can also think of some guys who have been referred to both as SGs and SFs (like Artest), but I'm looking for a guy who is more of a true SG.

Nominees...

Jerry West -

Sidney Moncrief -

Michael Cooper -

Joe Dumars -

Michael Jordan -

Kobe Bryant -

[Doctor K]

Hmmm. I still say Jordan.




Bowen isn't really a true SG, he is more of a SF.

[Loki]

If you go by overall defensive impact, which includes individual defense, team/help defense, and off the ball defense, I think Jordan wins this pretty handily.

There are players who were comparable/equal/slightly better than Jordan in one defensive area (e.g., Moncrief was a tremendous 1-on-1 defender), but none bring the entire defensive package to the table like he does imo, and none have the defensive impact on games that he did. And even in those cases where someone was possibly superior, it was only as compared to the average game's Jordan, because when Jordan focused on it, he was as good or better in every single defensive area as any SG who has ever played the game.

I've never seen a guard affect the complexion of games defensively like '88-'93 Jordan did. That's why he finished top 5 in DPOY voting for 9 consecutive full seasons ('88-'98), including one DPOY, two #2 finishes in DPOY voting ('90 and '93), and another top 3 finish.

[Resurrection]

Michael Cooper or Andrew Toney.

No one else even comes close (waits for Jordan groupies).

[JayGuevara]

Dumars, Moncrief, and Jordan get my votes. But I might be slightly biased in my pick of Dumars as number 1, because he's so closely tied to Detroit. Moncrief has a strong case also. And Jordan could have been the best ever, but I don't think as is he defense would give him best ever. There were many times Pippen would cover the other teams best perimeter player for most of the game, and Jordan would come in and finish him. But I would say in my personal opinion they're top 3 and all have cases to be number 1, but I'm personally inclined to give it to Joe.

And I don't consider Bruce Bowen a shooting guard.

[Loki]

Michael Cooper or Andrew Toney.

No one else even comes close (waits for Jordan groupies).

Wtf? At least Cooper is a respectable choice. But Toney?

[RonySeikalyFTW]

It has to be MJ. I love that you included Moncrief and Dumars, they instantly came to mind when I read the tread topic. John Starks, Kendall Gill, Dan Majerle, Vernon Maxwell, Mitch Richmond were all great defensive 2-guards in their prime. Gary Payton could've guarded any 2 if he'd chosen to.

[Glove_20]

I've never seen a guard affect the complexion of games defensively like '88-'93 Jordan did.

[Resurrection]

Wtf? At least Cooper is a respectable choice. But Toney?

Before injury....Toney was a defensive stud/stopper. Ask the Celtics.

[Glove_20]

To answer the question.

It's close between Jordan and Moncreif. I'd give Jordan the very slight edge. Followed by those 2 would be Cooper/Dumars. Lastly, come West/Kobe.

[Loki]

Probably the closest thing to it, yeah (and Pippen would be the closest thing to it from the SF spot). Jordan was still a better team/help defender, whereas Payton was his equal and possibly superior at ball pressure and doubling the post from the strong side. Payton, during his defensive prime ('96-'00 imo) also exerted a bit more energy than every version of Jordan save for '88-'91 MJ, because he didn't have to do as much offensively.

[1987_Lakers]

If you go by overall defensive impact, which includes individual defense, team/help defense, and off the ball defense, I think Jordan wins this pretty handily.

There are players who were comparable/equal/slightly better than Jordan in one defensive area (e.g., Moncrief was a tremendous 1-on-1 defender), but none bring the entire defensive package to the table like he does imo, and none have the defensive impact on games that he did. And even in those cases where someone was possibly superior, it was only as compared to the average game's Jordan, because when Jordan focused on it, he was as good or better in every single defensive area as any SG who has ever played the game.

I've never seen a guard affect the complexion of games defensively like '88-'93 Jordan did. That's why he finished top 5 in DPOY voting for 9 consecutive full seasons ('88-'98), including one DPOY, two #2 finishes in DPOY voting ('90 and '93), and another top 3 finish.

Hey...do you by any chance have the DPOY voting from '91 and '92. I've been searching for that for a while but can't find it. Where did Jordan finish those 2 years?

[iggy>]

jj reddick

[Loki]

Hey...do you by any chance have the DPOY voting from '91 and '92. I've been searching for that for a while but can't find it. Where did Jordan finish those 2 years?

Nope, I don't know of any place that has voting tallies. My comments above were pieced together from what announcers in games from those seasons/playoffs said about the DPOY results. For instance, here's a game video from the 1993 playoffs where it says that Jordan was voted best defensive player in the league by NBA coaches and second to Hakeem by the sportswriters/sportscasters (Hakeem won DPOY in 1993). It's at the 1:21-1:32 mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16D4DCduxVA

I'm surprised basketball-reference.com doesn't have DPOY tallies pre-1996. Maybe they didn't keep the records of it after the votes were counted? I find that hard to believe, however.

[RonySeikalyFTW]

As great of a defender as MJ was, would he be able to guard himself if he was cloned?

*head explodes*