Olajuwon vs Kevin McHale 1986 NBA Finals

[Sir Charles]

Duncan>Barkley

Shot Blocking and in the Rest Barkley Owns Duncan

[TMac&Luther]

Duncan>Barkley

It's hard for me to compare eras........Barkley like other great players played in possibly the toughest era in basketball. I can't even say for sure that Duncan gets a ring if he played during that era.

Jordan's bulls had everything on lock down and when they didn't Hakeem just shyted on everybody else......Duncan would've just been another victim

[Sir Charles]

It's hard for me to compare eras........Barkley like other great players played in possibly the toughest era in basketball. I can't even say for sure that Duncan gets a ring if he played during that era.

Jordan's bulls had everything on lock down and when they didn't Hakeem just shyted on everybody else......Duncan would've just been another victim

You are forgeting Barkley played in the 80s...which wa tougher than the 90s era with the Bulls.

Lakers Show Time: Greatest Fast Paced Running Skilled Team Ever
Big 3 Celtics: Greatest Low Post Slow Paced Team Ever
The Bad Boys: Greatest All Around Defense (both Frontcourt and Frontline) Defensive Team Ever

[Da_Realist]

Game 3

[loot]

Shot Blocking and in the Rest Barkley Owns Duncan

How about championships? Defense? Duncan has the edge and it isn't slight. Don't get me wrong, Barkley was one of my favorite players. he was the one who got me into NBA basketball. But you can't deny Duncan.

BTW Sir Charles how do you feel about the 1987 playoffs? You know Erving's last postseason, the series against the Bucks? Quite a show by Barkley there.

[Sir Charles]

How about championships? Defense? Duncan has the edge and it isn't slight. Don't get me wrong, Barkley was one of my favorite players. he was the one who got me into NBA basketball. But you can't deny Duncan.

BTW Sir Charles how do you feel about the 1987 playoffs? You know Erving's last postseason, the series against the Bucks? Quite a show by Barkley there.

Championships are Team Oriented not single players oriented and just to remined you: Barkley played with Real Competition not the Weak Shi-t that has Duncan played and in his Whole PRIME having Robinson, a Great Cast of Spurs, Ginobili in an Era where the Last Great NBA Legends where over 35 years old at best and at avg. Same with Garnett...Garnett has finally won his championship because he is sorrunded by Great Players for the 1st time in his ****en Career (thank god he is still somewhat prime at age 31 and not 34). Barkley had Great Players with him in his 1st two years in the league and last 3 when he couldn`t play anymore. Wrong Time Always and ofcourse played in a Superior More Competitive Era.

Barkley`s Floor Defense is Suerior to Duncan`s by miles. His Quickness and intuition for steals and Floor Game was the Best Ever Seen for a PF (same as Garnett`s and Malones Floor game is Way Superior to Duncan). Just like Hakeem`s had the Best Floor Defense Ever for a Center and Highest SPG Avg ever for a Center...Barkley was the Best Powerforward Floor Defender of All Time (also possesing the Highest SPG Avg ever for that spot)

So don`t give me this **** that Duncan was a way better Defender. Yes he is a better Interior Defender because he is actually a 6`11 1/2 Center that is adaptable to Forward just like Hakeemwas but with 1% of the talent, athletic abilities and offensive game, clutch game and greatness that Hakeem had. Other than that Barkley, is a Better and Way Better as a:

Scorer, Rebounder, Passer, Shooter, FT Shooter, 3-Point Shooter, Dribbler, Game Creator, Intimididating Player, Clutch Player etc etc

So if Duncan is Better in One thing than Barkley and Barkley is Better in THE REST OF ALL OTHER THINGS...and the fact that Duncan has ALWAYS HAD A GREAT CAST IN HIS PRIME and THOSE PLAYERS Still Capable of Playing PRIME...in WEAKER Era how does that give him the edoge over Charles?

And a crippled no backed Charles schooled Duncan at ages 34-36 while Duncan was 21-23 and already an All Star and Finals MVP!

Barkley > Duncan. Period

By the way the Bucks in the 80s was a Great Team and Barkley as 23 year old averaged 24.6 PPG (shot 57.3% frm the Total FG, around 63% 2-Point FG and over 24 PPG), 12.8 RPG, 2.4 APG, 1.6 BPG and 80% FT...Pretty good Stats in my opinion

[Psileas]

Among the all-time stars who are called underrated, there is a good number of fans who tend to overrate them. Pippen, for example, has been called "not a top-50 GOAT player", which underrates him. But, he's also been called "a top-2 player of the league in the mid-90's", which is a clear stretch.

With McHale, things are different. Maybe he's not really underrated, but he is underappreciated. For sure, he very rarely got overrated. Take the 1985 Finals, for example: Everyone expected (and got) another Magic vs Bird battle, but actually, the Finals' MVP was Kareem and the Celtics' MVP was McHale, who outscored, outshot and outrebounded Bird.
Look also at his 1987 numbers in general:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ke01&year=1987
He scored 20+ in 35 of his first 36 games.
He never scored less than 15 points in the whole season.
He led the league in FG%, at 60.4.

Everyone remembers Bird's contributions to that team (I'm not saying they're wrong), but almost everyone forgets how vital McHale was that season, as well (and, as far as I remember, he played part of it, including the playoffs, injured).

His performance in the 1986 Finals was another highlight of his career, giving Houston's big guys fits in defense and offense. Obviously, Bird still was the MVP.

[Sir Charles]

Among the all-time stars who are called underrated, there is a good number of fans who tend to overrate them. Pippen, for example, has been called "not a top-50 GOAT player", which underrates him. But, he's also been called "a top-2 player of the league in the mid-90's", which is a clear stretch.

With McHale, things are different. Maybe he's not really underrated, but he is underappreciated. For sure, he very rarely got overrated. Take the 1985 Finals, for example: Everyone expected (and got) another Magic vs Bird battle, but actually, the Finals' MVP was Kareem and the Celtics' MVP was McHale, who outscored, outshot and outrebounded Bird.
Look also at his 1987 numbers in general:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ke01&year=1987
He scored 20+ in 35 of his first 36 games.
He never scored less than 15 points in the whole season.
He led the league in FG%, at 60.4.

Everyone remembers Bird's contributions to that team (I'm not saying they're wrong), but almost everyone forgets how vital McHale was that season, as well (and, as far as I remember, he played part of it, including the playoffs, injured).

His performance in the 1986 Finals was another highlight of his career, giving Houston's big guys fits in defense and offense. Obviously, Bird still was the MVP.

Pippen was the Best SF after Bird left in the Early 90s till around 1995. Then it was Grant Hill. Pippen is not Overrated but actually Underrated

[Psileas]

Pippen was the Best SF after Bird left in the Early 90s till around 1995. Then it was Grant Hill. Pippen is not Overrated but actually Underrated

I didn't say he wasn't. I said that during that period, the best SF in the league wasn't a top-2 player overall.

[Sir Charles]

I didn't say he wasn't. I said that during that period, the best SF in the league wasn't a top-2 player overall.

True

[loot]

Championships are Team Oriented not single players oriented and just to remined you: Barkley played with Real Competition not the Weak Shi-t that has Duncan played and in his Whole PRIME having Robinson, a Great Cast of Spurs, Ginobili in an Era where the Last Great NBA Legends where over 35 years old at best and at avg. Same with Garnett...Garnett has finally won his championship because he is sorrunded by Great Players for the 1st time in his ****en Career (thank god he is still somewhat prime at age 31 and not 34). Barkley had Great Players with him in his 1st two years in the league and last 3 when he couldn`t play anymore. Wrong Time Always and ofcourse played in a Superior More Competitive Era.

Barkley`s Floor Defense is Suerior to Duncan`s by miles. His Quickness and intuition for steals and Floor Game was the Best Ever Seen for a PF (same as Garnett`s and Malones Floor game is Way Superior to Duncan). Just like Hakeem`s had the Best Floor Defense Ever for a Center and Highest SPG Avg ever for a Center...Barkley was the Best Powerforward Floor Defender of All Time (also possesing the Highest SPG Avg ever for that spot)

So don`t give me this **** that Duncan was a way better Defender. Yes he is a better Interior Defender because he is actually a 6`11 1/2 Center that is adaptable to Forward just like Hakeemwas but with 1% of the talent, athletic abilities and offensive game, clutch game and greatness that Hakeem had. Other than that Barkley, is a Better and Way Better as a:

Scorer, Rebounder, Passer, Shooter, FT Shooter, 3-Point Shooter, Dribbler, Game Creator, Intimididating Player, Clutch Player etc etc

So if Duncan is Better in One thing than Barkley and Barkley is Better in THE REST OF ALL OTHER THINGS...and the fact that Duncan has ALWAYS HAD A GREAT CAST IN HIS PRIME and THOSE PLAYERS Still Capable of Playing PRIME...in WEAKER Era how does that give him the edoge over Charles?

And a crippled no backed Charles schooled Duncan at ages 34-36 while Duncan was 21-23 and already an All Star and Finals MVP!

Barkley > Duncan. Period

By the way the Bucks in the 80s was a Great Team and Barkley as 23 year old averaged 24.6 PPG (shot 57.3% frm the Total FG, around 63% 2-Point FG and over 24 PPG), 12.8 RPG, 2.4 APG, 1.6 BPG and 80% FT...Pretty good Stats in my opinion

IF Duncan played in a weak era, then his supporting cats is weak too.

And all that bla bla just goes to show you I hit the hail on it's head. Now you're going to overrated Barkley's defense. He was a poor defender. Could he defend well? Yes. Did he? No.


AND Barkley choked Julius Erving's last playoffs away, thank you. Pretty good stats by Barkley during the season yes, but he was not there when it counted.

[Da_Realist]

Among the all-time stars who are called underrated, there is a good number of fans who tend to overrate them. Pippen, for example, has been called "not a top-50 GOAT player", which underrates him. But, he's also been called "a top-2 player of the league in the mid-90's", which is a clear stretch.

With McHale, things are different. Maybe he's not really underrated, but he is underappreciated. For sure, he very rarely got overrated. Take the 1985 Finals, for example: Everyone expected (and got) another Magic vs Bird battle, but actually, the Finals' MVP was Kareem and the Celtics' MVP was McHale, who outscored, outshot and outrebounded Bird.

Had the Celtics won the 1985 Finals, McHale would have definitely been the Finals MVP.

He averaged 26 pts, 1.3 asts, 10.7 rebs, 1.8 stls, 1.8 blks on 60% fg. Those are MVP numbers.

[Niquesports]

Shot Blocking and in the Rest Barkley Owns Duncan

As a PF Id take Duncan as a player ID take Barkely.Ducan almost always played in the post true to a PF game Barkley was on the post outside ran the floor he was more of a tweener.

[Sir Charles]

If Duncan played in a weak era, then his supporting cats is weak too.

And all that bla bla just goes to show you I hit the hail on it's head. Now you're going to overrated Barkley's defense. He was a poor defender. Could he defend well? Yes. Did he? No.

Weak era Compared to Barkley`s but that doesn`t make Duncan bad at all he is clearlu one of the Best PFs or actually CFs (because he plays like a Center) ever but he had MAJOR ALL HIS CAREER AND ALWAYS IN HIS PRIME and he did not battle the REAL NBA: BIG 3, THE SHOWTIME LAKERS, THE BADBOYS or MJ-Pippen in Their Primes Ever.

He could Defend Well against tall Stocky Players. I`ve seen Barkley guard Shaq when he was in Orlando and he forced Shaq out of the Paint the whole game. Barkley`s toughest players to Guard where the "tall ast silky players with skill" like McHale or when he was put to guard a "SF" that was obviously more skilled than your avg PF, thats when he had trouble.

Barkleys Floor Defense was inmense when PFs tried to dribble on to him (not SFs) he would steal it all the time, his capacity to reading the play (in Bird`s style was incredible) was the Greatest Ever for a PF, reason why he is the Greatest Stealing PF Ever. Ever!. He was also a Great Help Defender: Name me one *****in PF that had the Speed and Potence to Go back court and Block a quicker Gs Fast Break on daily?

Not to mention Barkley had Center instincts and new how to block shots away from his man do to great notion of that spot, timing and footwork. I`ve seen Barkely guard Parish and force him out the paint. Get Real Barkley was lazy in the season but when he was pissed he`d play grear Defense ofcourse he wasn`t the Best Shot Blocker because he was only 6`4/6`4 while Duncan is 6`11 1/2 ft but then again Duncan can`t do sh-it on the floor he can`t move worth sh-it as a Floor Defender like Barkley, Garnett or Malone.

AND Barkley choked Julius Erving's last playoffs away, thank you. Pretty good stats by Barkley during the season yes, but he was not there when it counted.

Barkley`s was not your focal scorer until 1986 and it was a 37 year old done Docs last year and one was suppose to respect that. By the way Charles would not choke against anyone his hero-like in 93 (1st player to interrumpt the Bird-Magic-MJ MVP era) a Team that had Pathetic Defenders and No Balls (everyone had the Rockets, Jazz and Sonics over his team) all the way to the finals.

And as this boradcaster said himself (see for yourself! i was witness to this)

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=rTJ4VS...eature=related

[COLOR="DarkRed"]Minutes 3.12-3.19[/COLOR]

"[COLOR="Blue"]In All The Years I Have Been Covering the NBA...I Have Never! Seen

..AN INDIVIDUAL PLAYER THAT... JUST WOULD NOT LET HIS TEAM LOOSE[/COLOR]"....:

([COLOR="Red"]AND I WAS WITNESS TO THIS ****, I HAVE NEVER SEEN A SINGLE PLAYER DO THAT, EVER, NEVER SEEN MORE OF A WARRIOR IN THE NBA, NEVER SEEN A PLAYER THAT COULD PUT THAT MUCH FEAR INTO THE EYES OF HIS OPPONENT AT WHOLE COURT THAN BARKLEY AND TAKE A GAME OVER TOTALLY, EVER![/COLOR])

1993 W. Semi FinalsConference Finals:

[COLOR="Blue"]Guarded By Defensive Player of the Year 7`1 center David Robinson = OWNED![/COLOR]

1993 W. Finals Game 7 against the Sonics (the Best Defensive Team in the West):

[COLOR="blue"]44 Points, 24 Rebounds while Guarded by Perkins, Kemp and constantly doubled and tripled teamed by Perimter Players. [/COLOR]

Yeah Major Choke!!!

[SCREWstonRockets]

22 (like the Rockets winning streak) years later and these teams will meet in the Finals once again. Instead of Dream vs McHale, it will be Yao vs KG. T-mac and PP will be the centerpiece of their teams respectively.